How Can We Cultivate A Sense Of Belonging? Insights from Michelle DeKeyser

Welcome back to the Real Life Moms podcast. This is a place that we can take a break from the chaos of parenting and take this time to focus on ourselves. I'm Lisa Foster, your host, and today we are talking about connections and connecting with ourselves and with others. And I'm here with a fellow mom.

Michelle DeKeyser, and she is a mama empowerment speaker, author, and coach who believes in the transformative power of women's circles. Her mission is to create a world full of passionate, connected moms who inspire those around them. Welcome Michelle to the podcast. Well, thank you so much for having me on, Lisa.

I'm so excited to be here. I know. And I'm excited too, because I haven't had a conversation about connection. I think this is such an important topic and I don't know why people don't talk about it more. You know, I feel like it's just something we take for granted.

I feel like it can be that elephant in the room. Like you think you have the connection, but you're not sure. And then like, you're like, everyone else has a [00:01:00] friends, everyone has Facebook stuff. And then you're like, what do I have? And then you're like, Yeah, and then also, is it a real connection, or is it just like this peripheral thing that I feel like I'm connecting, but I don't know.

We go through that whole analyzing thing in our head, and then we talk ourselves out of it. Next thing you know, we're sitting in front of the TV with our ice cream. Exactly. I love my ice cream. I connect with my ice cream. There you go. But for you, what was like kind of the turning point for you that you realized connection was so important, was like kind of a key to fulfillment and growth?

I feel like I've always just kind of struggled with belonging, like just from the beginning. I mean, I had such big emotions around me between my mom, my sister, they were just, People have bigger emotions, so I kind of just kept mine to myself thinking they weren't valued and stuff. So I've always never felt like I quite belong to where I am.

And it wasn't enough for the people at the times. I mean, sometimes I think of the energy I put off. It was, you know, the people just reflect that. But it was me inside just saying, I don't [00:02:00] really belong here and. I would do a lot with all kinds of different groups, and I had a way of actually, like, blowing up groups to the exstreme

but I think part of that was just my deep suit. Like, I'm not connecting, but also not connecting with myself or feel like I belong to anywhere, even sometimes with my family. Right? Even with the kids, like, Even recently, like it was last week, I believe it was, I walked downstairs and I just said I was going to go upstairs to myself a little bit.

I come downstairs and they're all playing a game. We call 5 crowns and 4 of them are playing. I'm like, 1 of my favorite games. I'm like, how come no 1 even asked me? So, like, either, like, a little tender tantrum, like, in a way, just because, like, it was feeling still come up and then it was like, I had to walk away.

And then my husband came to talk to me and then, , eventually, by, round 5 or 6, I finally joined in. But, it's that inside of you that those feelings just kind of come up and it's like, what do you do with them at times? And sometimes they figure out how to handle those things. And so, for me, they were always big feelings and I think at times I isolate myself because of my feeling of not belonging that I purposely would remove myself from groups that I might [00:03:00] have done well with if I was able to feel like I could belong, but it was really more the deeper kind of do for myself and belong to myself. 

That really made the change. We block ourselves so much right? Like it wasn't like your family didn't want to include you, right? They even asked as soon as I came downstairs, but I was already like Exactly, but yet in our minds we have these like stories that we don't fit in we're not included.

We don't connect. And if that's something we have to work on in ourselves, which that's one thing you do talk about is connecting with yourself. Like that's kind of the foundation of all this, isn't it? Well, it's really just. Diving deep into figuring out who are you and what do you want? And they sound like very simple questions, but they are so deep rooted.

And because as soon as you ask someone, who are you? Like, we start all the labels. I'm a mom. I'm this, but it's not the essence of who you are. Those are just labels. And then the 2nd thing of what do you want? As soon as they start thinking about it they start listing things they don't want.

And struggle to actually list things [00:04:00] that I, and I, some questions like, what do you want for dinner? Like, I don't know. What do you want to, or you're trying to figure out what the other person wants you to want instead of just saying what you actually desire. And so there's such basic things, but we're so ingrained into thinking about what other people might want or trying to make our decisions based on what we think they might want.

And then we end up just feeling more resentful or more just left out or more just like we never do what I want, but it's like this guessing game. And I've noticed that. My son is sometimes just a pure mirror of myself and I've noticed that he can, you ask him when he wants for dinner and then he's like, I could see the wheels turning his head like they would in mine.

And I'm like, well, what is it that you want? You don't even worry about the rest of us on what is it just that you want? But we struggle, especially as moms to answer that questions because we're so considering what everyone else is doing that. It's it's hard to answer that question. So I think it really just comes down to the fundamental question.

What do I want to do today that I'm going to enjoy [00:05:00] even for 10 minutes. And that question, like, all of a sudden working with clients or stuff, just be like, what, what? I don't know. And it's like, but we have that list of things we don't want. So, I'd say, even if you have that list of things, you don't write it down, just get them out of your head.

But as the ones that come in, really start to focus on them, because we're going to get what we focus on, whether it's the negative or positive. It's like, you can say, I don't want my kids to help me. But if you keep focusing on the word yell, they're. You're going to cause that kind of tension, whether it's, you're still focusing on that aspect versus like, what are some more positive things that we can do?

How can we communicate better? And 1 of the keys to communication is also silence, which is key, which we get so uncomfortable with silence that we want to fill that silence. So, whether it's with a friend or with your kids, as soon as there's a pause. We just jump right in to either give advice. We jump right into to be the mama bear and say, let's fix it.

Without giving them that space to [00:06:00] really create that connection, because just like when your husband, you tell your husband something like, well, he just listened to me. I don't need a fix. But then we go and do the same thing to our kids. And so I want to advise or just throw this out there is when, when you feel that silence with your kids.

Just close your mouth and let them keep talking just those pauses just give them time to figure it out. And then they keep talking it through and that's essentially what we want to do is we really want to be that guide for them. Not the fixer. I want to make sure that they can talk it through and then we can go through the suggestions and we can talk it out with them.

But we don't have to say, this is what we do can help give them choices or help them give more options. But ultimately, when they're 18 or whatever age, they leave the house. If we don't give them those skills to figure out for themselves. Right now, we can do it with our guidance, but at some point, they're not going to have our guidance anymore.

So we need to make sure that they're well equipped. And silence is key to that when we're having conversations where kids as painful as they [00:07:00] are, oh, totally. I mean, I, I agree to all of this. I mean, first of all, yes. I just had this whole conversation about just throwing out those superficial labels, basically that we say that we are.

And it's usually like around this is my occupation. Like I am, craniosacral therapist and I'm a podcaster, but that's not like who I am. That's like, has nothing to do with the qualities. That I have, right? And yes to the whole, we don't know what we want because the time we're just trying to put out fires for others.

 But you're right, we should stop and think about what it is we want, not because it pleases everybody else around us, what actually pleases us, and that's hard, I mean, I'll go to the supermarket, And I can buy myself lunch every once in a while by myself with nobody else around and it's just for me and I'm like, I don't know what to eat.

Like I go back to the habits that I, you know, I just know because I'm like in a panic attack. But yes, I totally get it. And the silence, I have to [00:08:00] say, is, sil

ence is beautiful. It's the hardest thing to sit through, literally, because yes, we feel, everybody feels they have to fill the space, whether they're with their friends or you're, Family, but that silence is where all the magic is, if you just take a moment and have silence either for yourself to figure it out or for whoever needs to respond, right?

Someone's going to feel the silence. It's not going to stay silence, because guess what? Whoever you're talking to, it's awkward for them too. Right? Like they want to feel it too. So just sitting back and just being like, Oh yeah, they'll say something. It's so important. Well I think there's also just a fear in the silence too.

Especially when you were mentioning being still with yourself. Is also like, what do I do when these thoughts just keep racing through my head and the more you do sit in the silence for even just a little bit of time. It's not the thoughts are ever going to go away. And I think what people think with meditation or things like that, that they're going to just completely stop is that they're going to slow down.

And then you're looking at the rest of your [00:09:00] day in terms of how did that help me throughout the rest of my day. Was I able to now respond more than react to the rest of my day because of this time I took? And I'm hoping for most of you that do do this. The answer is yes, because it's generally a big fat yes, because as much as we want to say that the more we get done, it creates this frantic energy in us and things sometimes take longer.

I mean, essentially time. Especially as moms, we do have a limited amount of time, but sometimes we have such a frantic notion of time that we make it so rushed when we start to slow things down. The thing that we thought was going to take us 1 hour to do might take us 10 minutes. And that's the difference with the idea of time.

It's not that we have less than 24 hours. It's how long does something take you to actually do? Because when you're in the flow of it, as I like to say, with your genius, when you're in the flow and the state of things, what might have taken you 6 hours might only take you 20 minutes, depending on what you're doing and how you're doing it and the thought process that's going into it.

So, the idea is when we do actually [00:10:00] slow down our thoughts with meditations or visualizations or things, and we have that picture in front of us. That task of actually making it done takes less time because it's intentional and we get it done with better results versus something that we thought writing a chapter in a book or something we thought was going to take five weeks.

I don't know whatever it is. And we were able to do in a weekend. So that's where the idea of time comes in is like, how long does the task actually take you that you thought was going to it? And that's when I think as busy moms, we hide behind busyness of it all. So we don't have to sit still and then we can just say.

Okay. I can feel my time it will be filled if I allow it to be by all the kids activities and everything. But if I do set off side, even 20 minutes a day for myself, that time ends up being distributed throughout the day in a better way. Because now, instead of having that fight out the door with the kids, it would have taken 15 minutes.

That fight isn't there anymore because I'm responding to them. Either narrating through how we're going out the door, whatever it is that I'm doing differently because I took that time. [00:11:00] Basically, I filled my cup first. And you're also kind of being in the moment with each thing is what I'm hearing.

It's like your focus isn't so scattered, trying to do all the things at once, but taking that space that I'm slowing down a little bit to really just focus on. Honestly, the thing that's in front of you that you actually intentionally put in front of you. And I think that's also true with, communication in terms of like, when you're at a party, sometimes you're talking to one person, right?

But your eyes are darting around the room, like worry about FOMO or whoever else is there. But that's one of the things I wanted to point out tonight, especially with connection is that person, whoever it was. Let's put in front of you for a reason. And so the thing that you can do is give that person your full on divided attention regardless of what else is around the room and just focus on them and whatever was supposed to come out of that conversation comes out of it.

Then versus you're having a conversation with that person looking at to see if I can go talk to this person. And I'm going to see if I can look over here and then no 1 has your full attention. That's the same thing [00:12:00] we do with our daily lives is is that split attention. 

I'm not saying it's easy. It's practice, but it's an intentional practice to like, this is in front of me. They're important. They deserve my full attention right now. 

Yeah, and the thing about that one to one really just focusing on whoever you're talking to the friend at the party, your children, your husband, whoever. Not only are they feeling seen and heard, but you feel better. Like, I feel like I make much more of a meaningful connection when I have that conversation, that it's just, the focus is just on that and I'm not so scattered. 

So yeah, I think that, I think that's so important. And I love that you said that that person is there for a reason. You might go to a party and that fear of missing out, like, oh, they're laughing in the corner, what am I missing, right? Um, because people have fear of missing out. I, I don't know if I have so much fear of missing out.

Sometimes I have fear of being in, but that's okay. That's a whole other story. But when someone shows up, [00:13:00] I have been in situations all the time where it's like, Oh, I just wanted to talk to that person over there and they're busy. And then I have this other person who just shows up in front of me.

And what I ended up finding is that when I give that person that attention that you're talking about, it was so meant to be. There was something that I learned, that I did, that I felt this was the connection that needed to happen in that moment, and it was so meaningful. And I wouldn't have known it if I was just not, paying attention, really.

And when you just go in with that sense of intention to it, it just calms yourself to, especially when you're nervous in a party, or if you're definitely an introvert or something, and just knowing that, you don't need to connect with everyone in the room, but to have more meaningful connections, you need to give that person in front of you, your full attention and so then you're going to make those real connections versus.

The scattered, like you said, like, it's almost like that scary brain. It's so easy to multitask, but then we're doing different things and then nothing really gets done. Well, we get lots of different things done, but nothing's done well.

And then we have [00:14:00] that sense of accomplishment in us. And so, especially for moms, I want to you have your to do list in the beginning of the day, but at the end of the day, you have your done list. So, rather than just keep adding to your to do list, start putting down the things you actually got done that day, so you can have a little bit of feeling of accomplishment.

I'm actually taking my own advice because I haven't been doing it for a while, but I'm back to like, writing my list. I'm like, oh, I actually did more than I thought I did today. Good job. You're focused on things you didn't get done. They're like, oh, yeah. That came up and I got that done that came up and I wasn't expecting to have to do that, but I had to and so, like, you keep track of those things.

So we're not in that mental thing. Like, oh, I didn't get anything done today. And then you just beat yourself up some more, especially with mom, like, because so many different things get thrown at you that you weren't planning for. So, like, your to do list, even if you thought you had time for in the day.

Six, seven more things got added in there that you did not expect. Yeah, always. Now, you have a framework that is called check in. Is that correct? Yes. Can you explain what that is and how to use [00:15:00] that? Yeah. Well, first of all, it's just being under the awareness of always just checking in with yourself. Like, how do I actually feel at the moment? Not what do I think, but like, just bracing with your body and checking in.

So then the letters get broken down into curiosity. Is the 1st c because curiosity, when we, when we look at the statistics and stuff at a 3 year old asks at least 100 questions a day, probably more depending on your 3 year old. But by the time they're 11, they're down to hardly any questions at all.

By the time you're 22, you got like, 2 percent of people thinking outside the box. And so that curiosity dies because we're so busy trying to do. Black and white, this is right. This is wrong. And so we're not open up to what's this against me the same thing. Like, even when I saw the belonging is like, I'm that story in your head.

But when you open with curiosity, you just start asking more questions. And then you start to hear the true story more and all of a sudden, you're not , stuck in what you thought was gonna happen. So, the 1st thing is really just again with curiosity. What do I want? Well, I don't know at the [00:16:00] moment, but I'm opening up my mind to answer that question, which then activates your, which is your, your activating system.

So, again, everyone knows this when you get a new car, you start seeing that car everywhere on the street. Well, you start asking yourself pointed questions like this. You might not have the answer right now, but if you take 2 minutes each day, just to keep consciously focusing on your subconscious will take over and start putting things in front of you that you do like doing.

And so it's then it's your job to keep note of that and just start saying, what do I want to do with that? But curiosity will open that up for you and then H comes into that. We need to be honest with ourselves because let's face it. We're not on time. And so with H1 things I do go through is to figure out what are your core values.

Because a lot of us think that we know what our core values are, but then when you look at a list, you're like, you got 15 to 20 and we want to get down to 2 or 3 and they're very different when you really focus on each person individually, but then that becomes your baseline to making your decisions is this going for my values?

Is this me living in my [00:17:00] values? Or is this me living away from my values? And then it comes in, but it's really being honest and deciding what are the things you really value. So, for me, I ended up going with 3 G's. And so it's grace growth and gratitude. But then I added on that they actually, for me, equal freedom. 

And so me, it's like, trying to have that sense in me that I want more, but it's so trying to make those decisions that are based on those things. When I do that. And then we come down to E, which is expectations. And I love how Brene Brown puts it. She always says, paint the picture because we have expectations in our heads. But if we don't go through and define those expectations for not only ourselves, but for the people around us. So, for instance, if you and your husband might have a different view of what the weekend is going to look like.

What things do you want to accomplish that weekend versus what things that he wants to accomplish and how do you. Find a compromise in that, but if you don't share that also at the end, we can like. I didn't get any of my stuff done and you're angry and resentful for it, but you had these [00:18:00] expectations that you were unwilling to acknowledge.

And then you can also turn those when you start to notice those expectations, you can turn them into goals for gratitude or things like that. That that are not just that. I expect this to happen. But what what do I get from it? And how do I send that out to others? And really acknowledge what I do have versus what I think I need or expect to have.

And then we go into, of course, C is connection. Yeah, so we're talking about bringing in connection and the reason why, and 1 of the things I do with connections, I do it through women's circles is I really thrive in that because. It is hard work to figure these things out. And there's two ways to get things out of your head, either to, to get it down on paper, to get it out, or to say it out loud to someone else.

But we don't always have that safe space or that community where we feel comfortable saying that out loud. And so I want to create that space where moms have that. Ability to actually speak from heart [00:19:00] because it's amazing what happens when people start sharing really from the heart. It opens you up to also share from the heart and.

What comes out is that deeper, because when you're in that kind of situation with the principles and things to make sure there's no cross talk, things like that, that you're able to have that safety to speak, not from your mind, but more from the heart and subconscious that is like journaling for half an hour.

When you finally get to that last, you know, 2 minutes where, like, you got deep down, it's in a quicker way and a more supportive way that gets us out. And so for. Busy moms, it's a quicker way and a more fun way to do the deep work of figuring out what we want and why we want it and our wives and all those deep questions that we can say, we're gonna go read the book and do it by ourselves.

But then the kids can come in the room and this and then this is just a sacred time that I'm setting up to answer these things. And then, um, K, of course, is keep listening all about the listening skills and the silence and really, truly [00:20:00] honing in on the person in front of you. And really listening to what they have to say, and again, in terms of times when you do feel like you respond, you don't need a response with an answer or or judgment or especially when your kids are talking.

The best way to respond is to. Respond with understanding to repeat what they said. Let me hear if I'm hearing this. Right. And then what you were summarizing what they just said, they're more likely to keep going, but we're usually so jump to give advice or to say what we did or what say that for when you're asked for it.

And there will be times you will be asked for it, but it's not always. And so it's really that listening, those listening skills in there, and then the eye and the end kind of go together in the end. It's like intentional now. So we're doing things with the intention behind it. And we're doing things now.

I mean, it'd be great if we did these things 10 years ago, but what's the best day to start doing something right now and putting that intention behind our choices when we do it. So, when we're checking in with ourselves, we're checking where we are with our body and then going through the steps to say, [00:21:00] where do I want to go next without the judgment that we're looking at ourselves.

Yes. Like a friend, because a lot of those thoughts in our head, we would never say to a friend. And so, like, if you start to write down the thoughts that are in your head, and like, what I say, would I say that to my friend? Then why am I saying it to myself now? So these are just steps to start doing that intentional check in to start changing those patterns.

That we have so that we are more intentional as our day that we're, we're finding more things that are we're enjoying and able to fill our own cup. So, when our kids do throw the tantrum that's coming, because they're human too, it's going to happen. They're not going to eat and something's going to happen.

They were able to take a deep breath or whatever it is that we need to do to get to stay calm and respond to them rather than react. Because we're in the position of, of being the adults where we're modeling for them the behavior we want. And so sometimes we throw the tantrum. Sometimes we didn't eat enough. 

And my kids will be like, mom, I think it's time for you to go, go chill out for a minute or mom, it's time for you to take some of your own [00:22:00] advice or they do it to me. Like, and that's, that's the key is that we are all human. We're all gonna mess up at some point or just things are gonna get to us, but it's how long do we sit in that?

And what do we do to move on from that? And what are our kids seeing us do? In response to all of that, that we're having that relationship where we're modeling for them that yes, mommy's upset today. Mommy had a bad day, but thanks for tearing me up. Thanks for helping me out with this. Thanks for reminding me that I need you to something.

And I try to give them credit for like, you're right. I do need that. And that's the exact same advice. I would give you and I thank you. And let's do that together. Yeah, it's amazing. Like, I love your check in framework. That is such a great tool for people to have. And, but I love, that intentional now because our kids tell it like it is honestly.

And sometimes we do need to hear that. My kids have given me such amazing feedback. I don't know where this voice comes from half the [00:23:00] time in my head and other people's heads. I mean, yes, we could dig deep. We have podcasts about this specific topic, right? But sometimes it's my kid that gets me out of it.

You know, like I might feel insecure about something. At work, I'm like, Oh, am I helping anyone at work? And my daughter will turn to him and she goes, You kidding me? What you do? People leave your office feeling better, mom. she's like, you could talk to a therapist all the time and not feel better, but when they come see you, you physically make them feel better.

And I'm like, Oh my God, how is this kid telling me something that's so perfect exactly what I needed to hear, right? Yeah, I had to take my daughter to, I gave her the day off because her big fifth grade field trip was going to the high school to watch a orchestra, so I take her to lunch and while we're at lunch she like kind of just a steep dive on me.

She's like, mom, you have really great ideas, but sometimes I just don't think you believe in them. Oh. I was like, okay. Coming from true, true. It's [00:24:00] so true. But they see it. They see, and the more we're making them aware of their thoughts and feelings, and then the more they're able to give us feedback and vice versa.

That isn't a 1 way street. It isn't that we have to have all the answers. Is that we are just trying to mentor and coach them to be their best selves and then they in turn return because we're all human we're never going to reach perfect status. Like, as a human being, it's just, it's not intended to be that way.

But it's what we do and how long we stay in those feelings that matters. And and what we do to then get back into it and how we take accountability for actions. And then go do something differently with it and what we've learned from it. Totally. Now, how do you go about making true connections? Like we talked about a little bit about, we can make connections with other people.

But how do you know they're really these true core connections? Well, I think the word vulnerability is used a lot and it's really important and, knowing vulnerability is really key [00:25:00] to knowing if you have a true connection is if 

you feel like you can be vulnerable to that person. Now, on that same note, though, it is a dance.

Like, you don't want to just go, like, on a first date, ask someone to marry you. And that's sometimes what people do with vulnerability is like, often diarrhea of the mouth and share everything about their life. And they're like, why did that person share it back? So the true connection really comes in that dance of gates at point where you can have those conversations, but it does take that finessing just like.

Eventually, you're married, right? But it's not like you got married on that 1st date. So it's that process of doing it. And so the key is, though, is looking at how people show who they are. We know that we can't change anyone. And so, when we pay attention to what people are showing us that they're willing to do, or how they're willing to treat us, or however, is that's when we set up our boundaries.

When we go into place and say, okay, well, they showed me that they're not willing to do this for me. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm not going to ask them to do that. Then people are going to show you who they are. And since you would be [00:26:00] reflectful on that, but the same time as they show you, that's when you, you also then have to then put in the effort to be more vulnerable when they're showing you they're worthy of your vulnerability.

And not everyone is, and that's okay, but it is it is. Working that out and figure out those tools to figure out when is it time to share just a little bit more to see where it goes. I mean, and it's at your comfort level, but if you're not willing to put that effort in, then you're not going to have that true connection.

And it really is that connection when you feel close to that person, you feel like you can share what's inside your mind. And again, it's being seen and heard. Do you feel seen and heard by that person or do you feel like you're the 1 doing all the work? Or do you feel like you're the 1 who's carrying the whole friendship or relationship or whatever it is?

It's for you to decide. When you feel seen and heard and who you want to be vulnerable for, but don't think that you need to be vulnerable with everybody. I think that's where the key comes is we've used this word a [00:27:00] lot and people just think I need to be vulnerable with everyone. No, it's same thing with trust. 

People have to earn it and and you have to have that dance to get there, but once you get there, and if you feel seen and heard by a person, then, you know, you have true connection. But again, you have to be willing to to put in some of those steps forward too. You can't just expect it from the other person.

If you're not willing to be vulnerable with someone you think is worthy of vulnerability, then you really don't have true connection. 

So if you can give the listeners just one thing to like walk away from this podcast and start doing right now, today, what would it be?

Well, my favorite thing to end podcasts with is to really create true connections is all those times in our heads. We see someone walk by, say they have a nice hat or a nice dress on. We have these really great compliments in our head and they just stay in our head. So my advice or wish for everyone is to start sharing those compliments, even with the perfect stranger with a friend, instead of leaving them inside of our heads.

Even if it just creates a smile or just creates a simple, I [00:28:00] mean, I was at the fair one time and I was like, okay, I'm gonna take my own advice. I really like her dress and like, and she's cute. And like, we had like all of a 30 second conversation. But again, you never know where it's going to lead. But even if it's just to change the mood, like, it lifts you up when you start sharing the positivity and we have them in our heads.

We're like, oh, I really like that. The way she's doing that, or I really like the way he's doing that, or, wow, their kid's so amazing, or, or something, we just leave these thoughts in our heads, the more we get those out, the more it just becomes habit, and we start to create that positive vibe around us, and people are like, oh, she's a really nice person, and it's more just that we're actually sharing who we are, and these thoughts come to us for a reason, let's get them out, and share them with the world.

Oh, I love that. It's so easy to say the negative stuff, or criticize or judge, but yeah, just to get those positive words out to tell somebody, it'll make them feel so good. And yeah, we need more of that. I love that. And just, it's a ripple [00:29:00] effect. I mean, you're just bright in someone's day, so they can bring someone else's day and it just changes your mood when they're like that 32nd.

Also, I was like, my kids aren't screaming the next minute, but I was like, my cup was almost filled from that just from that moment that when the kids started acting out, I was able to deal with it better because just from that interaction. And so, I mean, it's just really looking at how can we create more of those positive reaction interactions around us.

So, when the negative ones come that, we're not just awesome, like, push right into it. They were able to have kind of like a guard to the negative and deal with it, but not like, it sucked into it. Totally. So where can the listeners find you? So my website is connecting mamas. com and I have a Facebook igniting, the genius, in moms, which actually just got to 500 people this week.

So I was excited by that. But really come to connect to mamas. com and I have the podcast as well. Mama genius hub. And just really trying to get out there and on the website, there also be women's circles. Um, I do virtual women's circles every month. Um, and so I just love to get to know you [00:30:00] all and really want to create that connection for moms to find their genius in themselves and then inspire that in their kids.

And really just all of us living more of a purposeful life where we do know what we want, which I, I will admit I'm still struggling with, but the more we keep asking that question and opening with curiosity and doing it together, it's so much more fun. So much more fun. And yes, we're all struggling along with you to figure out what we want.

And I think it changes. It's not always the same. So yeah, we're always evolving,

well, thank you for coming on the show today and connecting with me. I loved our connection and just learning more about it. Thank you so much for having me. Bye everyone.