Finding Your Writing Path: Insights from Author Leigh Shulman

Welcome back to the Real Life Momz Podcast. This is a place where you can take a break from all your to dos and take time to focus on yourself. I'm Lisa Foster, your host, and today we are discussing writing and writing our own story. I have a fellow mom here, Leigh Shulman. She is an author and a writing mentor.

Her best selling book, The Writer's Roadmap, Paving the Way to Your Ideal Writing Life, has helped thousands of writers find their way in the writing world. Okay. Thank you, Leigh, for coming on the show today. Thank you so much for having me here. Well, I know we have this little bit of a connection because I also was in New York at the time of nine 11.

And for me, that definitely triggered. me thinking about my life, about where I want to be, and ultimately actually leaving New York and going and moving to Colorado and making a big life change. And I know you [00:01:00] also saw those towers fall. You, on the other hand, sold everything, picked up your family and actually left the U.

S. So that was pretty brave. Can you share just a little bit about That experience and just really how you got your family like it's one thing I wasn't I was just married at the time So I didn't have my family to pick up So, how did you like even gather everybody and just leave? I mean, I think when we say, you know, I sold everything and left to travel, it makes it sound like it was like super short and easy, but it was, it was definitely a process.

And so nine 11 happened. And I think the, the major impact it had on me was that I started to feel like, well, Safety is an illusion to a certain extent, like living in Brooklyn, having our home, you know, having our child there, just the life that we have where everything was in place, that, I mean, it sounds so, sometimes I feel like when I say this, I'm [00:02:00] being really negative, but things can change in a moment.

So what's the difference in sitting in New York and letting things change in the moment? Because it's happening in front of me and I have no choice. Mm-Hmm. and going and traveling. And I will say I, I did not have a child at the time of nine 11 and nine 11. For me, one of the decisions that I made because of it was, all right, make a decision.

Do I want a kid or do I not want a kid? And then I realized, I really do. And that's when we had our, our daughter. Well, I mean, again, didn't happen immediately. It took a little bit of time. But yeah. And then when she was two and she wasn't even two yet, actually, and we were looking for schools and the process of getting a kid into preschool in New York City was just so it felt so stressful.

And I, you know, there were interviews and psychological evaluations and play dates and group play dates. And then, and I, I was just, I don't, I don't want to put her through that. It doesn't make any sense to pay 20, 000 for a two year old to go to school. [00:03:00] Just felt really not right. So as we started looking around and my husband said to me, it's like, well, why don't we sell everything and just go and travel or go somewhere else?

And I remember at the time thinking like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Whatever. But then, it does seem like the right thing to do, and then, like everything, and this is very much how I approach anything, one little piece at a time, all you have to do is take one step. And then, that we did, and then now it's 15 years later, and we live in Argentina, and it was just one step at a time to get here.

I love that because it is so overwhelming when you look at these huge pictures, like we think about maybe moving to Canada or somewhere else. And, and my husband would love, his sister lives in London. So we would love to be like anywhere else, you know, and I, all I see is this huge picture in front of me and a lot of fear inside me, you know, like, I'm like, All these decisions, but you're [00:04:00] right, like you can just take one step towards wherever you want to be whatever goal it is and figure that piece out and and then you're right again like things can change like just because I'm here and things are all set up into place.

It doesn't have to take a 911. It could be a job, switches or an illness or. Just anything right that can just switch in a minute. And it doesn't matter if I'm in New York, Colorado, or, Canada, it doesn't matter. It's all the same. So that is such a good point. And I found when people, whenever people ask me, like, where do you, what do you do?

I always say, just start going through your stuff. I'm getting rid of everything you don't need or want. A, because that makes you lighter B, it gets you into the process. Of letting go of things, which I think is, is crucial when you want to make a big change or you want to do something different. And it's not just literal things.

Cause when you get rid of [00:05:00] something, it's a mindset thing. And it's like, okay, this thing has been a part of my life, but now it is no longer a part of my life. And it helps break certain attachments to things. I always pictured sort of leaving New York is like ripping out the roots of a tree.

This massive tree and. And it's almost like now when I think about it, it's like, you know, it's easy now to pick up and go. It's easy to travel when we do things. It's just part of how we see the world now. I felt that ripping out too when I left New York. And I think part of it is because that's where I grew up and that's where my family still is.

And those friends that you grew up with. So you feel like you're abandoning people when you leave them. Yeah. And I mean, that that's hard because I mean, when you say that it makes me think of the sort of the expectations that people have of us. And in a lot of ways, those are, those are the hardest things to move away from, because, this idea like you're [00:06:00] supposed to get married and have kids and then you settle down.

And, you know, none of those things are necessarily a given. I wish we were all felt free enough to make the choices that we wanted to make without sort of this weight of what you're supposed to do. And I think that hold us in place. You know, it's funny when I think about my family.

I don't I don't remember what they thought. I think they didn't think we would do it. I think a lot of our friends also didn't think we were going to do it. And it because it took a fair amount of time between the 1st time we said, Hey, we're doing this and then leaving.

And I think people didn't really think we were going to leave because it felt so, it felt inconceivable to me too, even though we were slowly moving toward it.

It was good practice for all big projects, all big things that came after, I would say. And I also think it helps me as my kids get older. I don't expect them to stay in the place they grew up or exactly where we are. [00:07:00] Because. I know for me, moving felt like I never necessarily fit in to the, where I started, you know, it was like I had great friends and my family's wonderful, but the actual environment was a lot for me and I knew it wasn't the place I should be, so that expectation on my kids, I know that they're also going to find their happy place and I'm okay with that, like, and it might not be next door to me, but I know I can also move.

I can live closer to them if I choose to or, travel more or whatever. So yeah, it makes it also different for how I'm looking at my kids as they grow too. And it's interesting as you were saying that you're saying like, well, wherever your kids might be. And then you start imagining all these things.

I'm like, I might travel, I might go here. I might do this. And that's exciting. And that's really fun. And you also said that it's okay for your kids to do that. and I, I would even say it's exciting. Like I want my kids to be able to, to do what they want. And, and, but I, I'm also going to say, [00:08:00] you know, my daughter, I have two kids.

One is nine and the others. They're, they're 10 years apart. So one is about to turn 10 and the other one is 20 and she left for college a few years ago. And she had the opportunity to go wherever she wanted to, in the sense of like, she could go to any English speaking country or any Spanish speaking country, and she chose to stay in Argentina and I can't say that I'm sad about that.

I can't say that I, she didn't like that. I wanted her to go to the U S but I am really happy that she chose to stay in Argentina. But also chose to go to a university in another city. It's an hour to get there by flight. But it's too far to just drop by and drop in. Yeah.

So she has space. And I think, I mean, I definitely have to say like, I, I thought I was going to completely fall apart when she left. I just thought I would be awful at handling it. And it was, So liberating to realize I [00:09:00] could let go and let her let her do her thing. And college is different here.

University is different here because there's no dorm. There's a campus, but it's not like campuses in the US. Where there's like sort of a closed community that protects kids or protect. They're not kids anymore. So we really, it was like, I'm sending her off to Cordova, which is where she's at the university in Cordova.

I'm sending her off there. And that's it. Like she's living on her own there. And I mean, I will say one thing I did ask her to do is on Instagram, when you check messages, there's a little note on the top that says the last time a person was on Instagram. And I asked her, I'm like, can you just leave that available so I can just see that you were on your Instagram recently, just as like for my peace of mind.

And then I was amazed. I was shocked. I didn't think this, that I could do it, but I was just like, That's it. And I, she has her life and I just kind of [00:10:00] let go and no, we're still close and we're connected and we talk, but you know, I let go of any of the decisions I would have made for her life while she was living at home.

And it was actually kind of nice. Like it's very liberating. To be able to do that. And it sounds like you were in such a great place to do it too. Like you had that relationship with her and yourself to really be able to do that. Yes. I will be contacting you next year because my daughter's going away next year.

It'll be a two hour flight, so it won't be terrible either. However, I'm finding it's different in the U S. They have a lot of breaks for like a week. I'm like, wait, you're coming home October, November. Like, I'm sorry. Are you even going anywhere? Because it seems like they're always on break, but that's another podcast.

Now on this podcast, we do a lot of talk about kind of self care, self help, and journaling comes up a lot in this practice, which I love.

But what I love about you is you actually do [00:11:00] more of the art of writing itself as you're an author and you mentor others in that. So can you talk a little bit about maybe your passion for writing and maybe even explain like writing versus journaling, how that's even different or how it's the same? I guess the way that I see the difference between writing and journaling, that journaling is much looser, and it's not, I think, and I think this is the main point, it's not really intended to be anything beyond what it already is.

And there are many types of journaling, like I actually love the three good things journaling. I did that for many, many years where just every morning I would write down three things that. That are good about my life. Three things. I appreciate gratitude journaling because it's such a mindset shift, but I've never used that journal to tell a story or to say something else, whereas when I'm writing something, there is this idea that eventually you do want someone else to read it.

And I think that's the main difference. Whereas the [00:12:00] truth is the for me, the process of both of them looks very similar at the beginning because. My gratitude journaling is scribbles and messy, and it is whatever. And also, what is it, Julia Cameron has morning pages that you write, you're supposed to just write three pages, whatever comes out.

And she even says, you're not really supposed to even go back and read it. It's not about reading it or using it. It's about the process of just getting stuff out, dumping it on the page. And, First thing in the morning to kind of clear your slate to, work through things and then you move on.

Whereas for me, when I'm writing a story, whatever it is, whether I'm writing a pitch for an editor of a magazine to say, Hey, I'd like to write this article, or I have an idea for a book or a short story. My first step looks very similar to that brain dump on the page, but the difference is I know I want it to become an article I plan on organizing it.

But I start by just letting it out [00:13:00] without judgment, without trying to shape it into anything, without trying to be anything in particular, just putting the ideas out in whatever order they come out. And then the next step is you do go back to it. You take a look at it. And I'm a very big believer in instinct, letting your instinct guide you.

Like, what was it? There's something you said early on. Oh, when you said you were growing up and you knew you good with your family and your friends, but you knew you wanted something else, that instinct, like that's the instinct. And I think it's, I don't know. We live in a world and I, I definitely feel like for moms in particular, we're given so many shoulds and try like being a good mom is impossible.

Like, based on what the outside world thinks a good mom is like, you have to be perfect and perfection doesn't exist. So literally you're constantly, I mean, I often feel like it's this constant race to a place that will never exist and will never be there. And this sort of dump on page process, it sounds bad, but [00:14:00] this just sort of get it all on paper without trying to shape or make it anything in particular is all about letting go of what should be your.

Making things have to be a certain way and letting things be what they are. And then when you go back and look at it, it's your instinct that guides you. So you read through it and you'll literally, like, I've seen it with people and I'll sit across the table with people where like, they literally almost lean forward when they like something, but something really speaks to them in their own writing.

And I say pay attention to that, pay attention to your instinct because that's going to guide you. so from the first time you write something on the page,, all the way to the time, your final draft of a book, that instinct will take you from one place to the other. I like writing and I love the dump writing because I'm not like this technical writer.

Like I'm more of like that heart centered, write from there, get it out writer, I would say. However, it's intimidating because just like motherhood, right, it, it feels like you have to [00:15:00] know something like really well to put it out there for other people to read, or just be a really amazing writer. Maybe parents that are listening that are interested in writing or want to do a little bit more of it, like how do you get over that, that you're not good enough to actually write something on the page?

Yeah, and I do find that self doubt, I don't know I couldn't do this, I don't know how, are the things that are, that get in the way of people writing. When I've sat with people who, they have an idea for a book, anytime someone has an idea for a book, I set up a time, we chat about the book, and, you know, often people will apologize, Oh, I don't know that, because I ask questions like, who is your character?

Do they have a name? And they don't have answers to my questions and they'll apologize. And it's like, well, you're, you're not supposed to know everything. And I think sometimes people come to that, that first chat with me thinking like I'm judging them to see if they're good enough.

Yeah. And that's never what it's about for me. It's about saying, well, what are you thinking? What are your ideas? Where are [00:16:00] you coming from? And the other thing about it is, if you want to write a book, you don't have to know everything. You don't have to write a book or a short story or publish articles.

You don't have to know everything. It really is, I guess, a lot like parenting in the sense. You can read all the books you want. You can have people tell you for hours and hours and hours how to do it, but it's not until you're actually doing it that you're like, Oh, okay. I understand.

I get it. And like with your first child, you know, people always tell you nap when they nap and then you don't, and then you realize for your second kid, you're like, you know, I'm going to do things a little differently. This didn't work. I'm going to do it differently. That is the exact same thing. Like when you're writing your first and second book,

and I'm not going to approach it that way. This time, I'm going to try a different approach. And that that's actually, you know, try the best parenting advice I ever got applies to books and probably most things in life, try something. If it doesn't work, try something else and [00:17:00] it really is as simple as that, because again, it goes back to your instinct.

Try something, see if you like it and then try the next thing, see what happens. You get stuck. How do you get unstuck? What will get you unstuck? Is it talking to somebody like me? Is it, doing a writing prompt? Is it, writing a pitch and just seeing what happens? And it, there is a lot of just putting it out there and just see what happens, which is hard to do.

It's hard to let go to be In a space where you don't know what you're doing, right? I mean, I hear a theme over and over again here. Like, yes, the unknown, it's fearful and scary, and we don't feel necessarily prepared. We like to be prepared, right? We don't feel prepared for the unknown, whether it's life or writing.

So for people who do want to start writing a book, an actual book, what, are there like different steps that you say, okay, let's do the A, then we're going to go B, C, and D. Like these are the, these are the things [00:18:00] you need to do to actually start your book.

So the things that you need to do to start your book, I like to balance chaos with control. So there's the side where you're dumping it on paper and you're going to see where you go. Okay. And then there's the side where, you know, I have, I've developed a bunch of tools over the years, and I actually, I don't have it up yet, but I should, I don't know when this is going to come out, but it should actually be on my website by the time this comes out.

Five step cheat sheet to write your book. And I have one for fiction and I have one for nonfiction. And really the first step is to figure out what, what is the message of your book? I call it the about of the book. And when I say about, I don't mean. What's the plot? I mean, what is it that you want your readers to understand and feel when they're finished reading your book?

And in my experience, people know, you know, you can trust yourself to know what you want people to understand from your book. You may not know the characters, you may not [00:19:00] know what's going to happen. There are lots of different details that you may not know, but if you know that core, what you want, what message you want people to understand, you'll figure the rest out.

Like the rest will come. And I guarantee you, me, anybody who's listening to this, you, you know, it's in there. And then the trick is to distill it down to one sentence, which. You can do, you know that that's easier than you think it is also. So that's the first step. I actually have a, blog on my website is the eight stages of writing a book that works you through it.

And I won't go through all the stages but what I really recommend is think, think about what is it that you want your book to be, and then just start getting things on paper without again back to that. Let it be chaotic. Let it be chaotic, but then we'll come back and that sort of instinctual feeling like, Oh, I like this.

Okay, let's pull that out. What goes along with that? What's the next step? And then slowly, but [00:20:00] surely, you kind of put your scenes together, recognizing that as you put your scenes together, they're not all going to work for you. There may be scenes you don't include That's totally fine. You may forget to do things you may, you know, like I did on one of my books, I worked by the third draft, I was on the third or fourth draft and I didn't actually know what my character looked like my how did I manage to do that?

You know, like, how did I not know what she looked like? So I had to go back and, you know, And add that in. It happens. It happens to everybody.

So, a lot of it is, well, you think you're supposed to know stuff that you're not necessarily supposed to know yet.

And just kind of swim around in not knowing. I think it, I think that's a really good space to get used to because that is a creative space and what I always recommend also is just tell yourself, you'll figure it out that that's my life mantra.

I'll figure it out, and that has served me with books. And I have to say that to myself, [00:21:00] even now, like I've written, I don't know, four or five books. I always get stuck. I always get to a point where I'm like, oh, I don't know what to do here, but I'll figure it out.

There is always a way out. And again, it's okay to ask for feedback, it's okay to ask for help, it's okay to ask for support, and I highly recommend that. You don't have to, but it does help.

And, and that's also one of the things that I have as part of different writing offerings that I have, is I have a writing community called the Inspired Writer Community, And it's very different than any other writing community because most writing groups, they think of a writing group, Oh, you're all writing together and you're sharing stuff.

This community, you know, there are elements of craft and how to, and like my, you know, my five step cheat sheets are in there, but it's really about having a community who you can go to, who reinforces that feeling of you will figure it out. You've got this, you'll get it done. I find all those types of community.

I mean, I have a community for podcasting where we meet once a, [00:22:00] month even and just check in because it's true. It's like if you have a question or you just need to be like someone to say, okay, keep going. You got this or let's help you with this tech issue. Building that community of people makes it so much better, but also I feel like you're going to keep going and it's, it's doable at that point then, then going it totally alone, where when you hit these roadblocks, it's so much easier to be like you know, forget that.

I'm not going to do that. But if you're somebody that you can go back to and be like, no, you got this, remember just try this or this, or we got your back, then you're, you're rising up again, you need that. Absolutely. And there's actually a study, I forget the name of the place that did it, that says that when you meet with, when you tell somebody what your plan is, you raise your chance of completing, you know, the study, you raise your chance of completing the plan.

Completing it to 65%. If you check in with people regularly, you [00:23:00] up your chance of, of completing your plan to 95%, which I'm like, wow. And the caveat to that is. You can't just do that on social media. Social media actually has the opposite effect eternally because when you do something, you say, I'm going to write a book on social media.

There's something that happens in the brain that your brain is like, I already did it because you get all this congratulations and this feedback. Yeah. Whereas the small group or like a smaller group or a group that's targeted a sort of sandboxing group. That helps move you forward because it's very difficult to go back on the internet and be like, yeah, it's been six months and I didn't do it.

However, with a smaller group of people that you trust who, you know, have your back where you, you know, to be able to go in and say, like, I know I said I was going to do this six months ago, but I really haven't done a thing yet. And I mean, I will say in our, in, in my community, it doesn't usually last for six months.

People, as long as they're checking in and we have weekly check ins and it's, and it's all based on [00:24:00] do what you have time for, do what works for you. Because I, I really feel like that's key to everything. I mean, books, parenting, figuring out whatever it is, knowing what you want. And knowing what is actually realistic for your life, because, let's say you have a full time job, you have a podcast, you have kids, you know, you're trying to do all these things.

You need to get sleep. You need to eat. You maybe want to exercise too, to say, I'm going to write two hours a day may not be realistic. If, if you're really start, if you haven't written before may not be realistic, if you've been writing for years. So it's all about figuring out what, what really works for you and even testing it.

So that's, that's what our group, my group is really good for. And I'm always there to kind of remind people, don't apologize for what you haven't done. It's not necessary. It's not a bad thing that you haven't done it. There's no quality judgment there. It's about what is it that you want and what is the next step that you can take to get [00:25:00] there?

That's it. I love that. Cause a lot of times in those group settings, people don't come because they haven't done the work. So they're afraid to come and show up with less, right? But that's the time you should be coming because it'll inspire you to do the work or you can get the help you need.

And you're right, these groups, if you find a supportive group, which most groups, I feel like even Facebook groups and communities that are made around a specific thing that you're involved in. They're usually people that are like minded to you and they want to support each other. They're not people who are like in competition with you.

So they are supporting you. So yeah, so just like going back to the theme, just keep showing up and moving forward little by little, right? Absolutely and I mean, I will say like, I use the group for that too. For example, like I, I had been writing books for the last year and I finally finished my book and now I'm querying it.

And, and so just for people [00:26:00] who may not know querying means I'm sending, I have a one page that describes what the book is and I'm sending it to agents, hoping they'll accept it, take me on as a client and send it to publishers. Meanwhile, in that process, while I'm doing that, I want to pitch articles. I want to start, I want to start writing and pitching more articles.

And man, it has been so hard for me to get back into it. So I, my first month doing it and I said, I said, I'm going to pitch four pitches a week for the whole month. And I think all of last month I did three full pitches that I actually sent out. I, you know, and I'm, I'm really good at procrastinating. We all have our methods.

I am really, really good at doing work that gets me closer to my goal but doesn't finish it. So I have probably, I don't even know how many ideas for pitches and I know where I want to send them and I have drafts for them, but the pitches aren't finished yet. So, I'm kind of pushing everything a little bit forward, a little bit forward.[00:27:00]

And, some are getting closer and I'm using the group and being honest about it. And here I'm being honest to with, you know, a larger group to say, like, I have not been reaching my goals, but that's not going to stop me from continuing to move forward. And I want to be honest about the fact that I'm not reaching my goals, because.

You have to be honest. If you can't be honest about what's not working, how can you change it? Exactly. You need to be honest with yourself. Otherwise, nothing's going to change is the answer, right? But without judgment, that's the real key. Out judgment.

Yeah. That judgment shut you down. Yeah. It's not needed. Yeah. It's not, it's not helpful.

So what is one thing that the listeners can start doing today after listening to this podcast? All right, so everyone likes to write in different ways. Some people love having a notebook and a pen that they love, or some people are perfectly happy to do it on Facebook or on Google Docs on your computer.

So what I'm going to [00:28:00] recommend is just sit down and tell a story, short story, come up with an idea, whether it's something for your day or something that's been kind of, many people say, I've had this story I've wanted to tell forever. , just, spend 10 minutes writing. That's it. 10, just 10.

You know, because you can just 10 minutes your way into a lot. It's some really great stuff. So, you know, commit to one time sitting down and writing for 10 minutes, Without, you know, and I, this is what I say, do free writing similar to journaling, but this, that's the sort of dump brain dump that I'm talking about that instead of, you know, putting it aside and it's not meant for anybody else, just write for 10 minutes, set a timer, don't stop.

Don't edit. Don't let yours just write. And if you don't like what you're writing, if you're writing something, you're like, Oh, I don't really like this. It's not working for me. Just move your pen or pencil or cursor to the next line and just pick up somewhere else. And I've, you know, I've done this with people and I even say, if you're not even sure what to write and you're sitting [00:29:00] there and you're like, Oh, I don't know what to say.

Just write that down. Start with that. It's because it always goes somewhere. I've, you know, I've even had people say like this, this is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life. Why am I doing this? And eventually you get through 10 minutes is long enough to get through that. That's all you have to do to start.

That's it. Yeah, just get that pen and paper moving or it just, it's movement, right? Even if you're writing, I don't know what to write. It's movement. And that starts to trigger the brain to like, okay, wait a minute. I got this. That's so cool. Exactly. Exactly. And again, don't judge what you wrote. The only judgment you need is, do I like this?

What sticks out to me when you go back to read it? Yeah. You know, give it, you know, write it one day, come back to it that night or the next morning and just be like, You're looking for what pulls you. That's it. Now, where can the listeners find you and what do you have to offer? So where you can find me, it's my website.

It's [00:30:00] leighshulman. com. And I actually have something that's only for podcast listeners. So you go to leighdhulman.com/podcast at the top, there's a thing to sign up. And if you would like what basically you're signing up for either a group or private coaching session. So put your name there and then I will get back in touch with you and be like, Hey, this is our next session.

Would you like to join us? And that's also a really great way. If you have any questions, you can always ask me and on my website and just leighshulman.com the podcast, the forward slash podcast, you won't find directly on my website. You have to go directly to it. But if you just go to leleighshulman.comhere's also resources. I have a free course. Well, the course isn't free. It's a It's sort of my book, but the first lesson is free. And it's how to create your ideal writing life. And notice I say ideal, not perfect. And there's a reason for that. You know, so there's lots of stuff on my website, but [00:31:00] the first place go to the board slash podcast and say, hi, let's get in touch.

If you're interested in writing. Let's talk about it because that's a great place to start. And I'll have those in the show notes as well so that people can click on it and have easy access to it. Well, thank you for coming on and talking about just everything. Your, your move and writing, but also just like the bigger picture that we all need to a not judge, right?

Get out of our way. Start moving forward. And that, it's okay. We're all not perfect. It does not have to be. Exactly. Perfection doesn't exist. So don't even try.

Thank you for joining us for this episode. Writing is such a creative outlet. And if you've been thinking of starting this, make sure you click on the links in the show notes and grab all the resources that Leigh gave us today. And of course, until next week, keep carving out time for yourself because you matter.