An End To Arguing, Valuable Lessons For All Relationships with Linda and Charlie Bloom

Hi, and welcome to Real Life Momz I'm your host Lisa Foster and Real Life Momz is a podcast that's all about connecting moms through real parenting conversations. I believe that moms have so much insight and knowledge, and together we are powerful. On this podcast, we give moms a voice to tell their stories and share their expertise and resources through real conversations. And this week we are joined by the lovely couple, Linda and Charlie Bloom. They're psychotherapist, relation counselors and they have taught at learning institutes all over the US and internationally. 

They're the authors of many books on the topic of relationships. And today we are going to discuss their new book An End To Arguing, 101 Valuable Lessons For All Relationships. 

Hi Linda. Hi Charlie. Welcome to Real Life Momz I am excited to learn from both of you because you have been married for over 50 years and you have such insight on the topic of relationships. You've written many books and helped many couples. I'm excited. We are going to discuss your new book today. Um, it's called The An End to Arguing 101 Valuable Lessons for All Relationships. So thank you for coming on this show today. 

Well, thank you for inviting us. I'm delighted to be here with you. Me 

Too, it's my pleasure. Why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourselves and what really inspired you to write your new book? 

Well, we're both psychotherapists and we specialize in treating couples. And one of the ways that we learned how to be helpful to couples in a very practical and effective way is that we learned in our own relationship first. And what you're, um, interviewing here today is a couple of recovered hotheads because we used to argue a lot back in the day and it created a lot of discomfort. 

And, you know, uh, we hurt and cried and feel judged and devalued and, uh, we paid attention to all the unskillful means that we had learned. And we, we got some really good help and we learned how to do it well and we preserved the love and the safety and the security and the fulfillment and the relationship, which the, the ugly arguments were eroding for a time. And so it seems to me that our wound became our gift to our community cuz we know the territory so well. 

And that's what this book came from, is a lot of the things that we had to learn to be able to handle our differences really well so that they're enriching in the relationship where we can lean on each other's signature strengths rather than being annoyed. 

Oh, I love that. I love that you took something that was so kind of challenging within your relationship and molded it into something that can help others. That's amazing. I know that this book has a lot of valuable lessons. Um, can you talk about, I know you have 101 of them, right, <laugh>, so can you talk about some of the lessons that you feel our listeners would really benefit from? 

Sure. I think one of the things that, you know, the book is about communication, obviously. And one of the things that, um, we try to remind people about that they sometimes forget is that when you're developing communication skills, it's not just about choosing the right things to say and the right way to say them. It's really about how well are you really listening to the other person. And for so many relationships, uh, things break down when people don't feel heard, by their partner. 

And, very often that's because when somebody is expressing a, a concern or a need or a desire or a grievance, it can activate a defensive response. And when we feel defensive and are giving our attention, we're taking it away from the person who's speaking and from what they're saying. And we're thinking about how am I going to respond here in ways that make me feel more secure or safer or less threatened. 

Or h how can I, how can we're planning our response to the other person so we're not listening? Mm-hmm. And when we're not listening, we don't really, not only, we may hear the words, but we don't necessarily hear the intention behind the words because we're so preoccupied with ourselves. So becoming a good listener and managing our defensive reactions when we get agitated or feel threatened is one of the most important things we can do. 

And if, and if we can take that on as an intention and begin to break the habit of defensive reactivity, then a lot of what, uh, the other person is needing will be given to them. Even even if we don't say things that are what we think are, are the correct things, just through the listening itself and feel heard and understood, and when we feel heard and understood, we're much less likely to get into those horribly painful defensive arguments. 

Do you have actual tips? Because listening, sounds so easy, right? Like just to sit and listen, but I think it's actually a hard skill to do without reacting. Do you have tips on how to maybe start to implement that skill? 

The book is full of them. 

<laugh> 

And people, people need a lot of very specific guidance. So there are checklists, you know, about different things that we could try and see if they work for us. One of the tips that we find works like a charm is time out. And it's an unutilized skill with couples. People do it with their kids when they're small and they time 'em out. If they misbehave or throw a tantrum or something, they, put 'em in their room for a little while for the child to calm down. 

And, I sometimes quote one of my children when they were small, and he said, I think the kids ought to be able to send their parents to their room. And he was absolutely bang on <laugh>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that sometimes we get triggered and we get so emotional and we're not thinking straight and we need, uh, just a little timeout maybe to send ourselves to our room for a little while. 

Or maybe just to take a breath and a pause or a few breaths and a little longer pause just to compose ourselves. Cuz when we're so emotionally overwrought, we tend to say and do things that we're sorry for afterward. And calming ourselves down can make all the difference in the world. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think that the timeout is, uh, uh, an incredibly important skill. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, another tip that we give people is to have regular check-ins with each other. 

Not wait until things get inflamed, but head off trouble at the past before it gets too large. If there's a little slight or a disappointment or broken agreement or something that you're frustrated about, maybe it's a household task, maybe it's a difference about rearing the children. You know, maybe it's something about the in-laws or it could be any kind of an issue, but we find all the time that couples in trouble don't check in with each other enough. 

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> it, they start to a minimum of once a week more is better. My husband and I have been checking in with each other on a regular basis for years now cause we don't have any tolerance for allowing mm-hmm. <affirmative> completions to mount up. And when couples start to check in when things are in bud stage, rather than they've gotten outta control, do you know, that is a really good tip for keeping the peace and harmony and cooperation in the relationship in good shape. 

Oh, check-ins. I love that. I love that. And is this like something where you're just kind of saying, okay, this is our check-in, and you just start talking about stuff that maybe is, I'm gonna use the word annoying you? Or is it about other things? 

Well, it can really be about anything. The intention of a check-in is just to, uh, convey to the other person where you are, what's on your mind, what's in your heart, wh where, what's your mood right now? What, if anything, is up for you in this moment? And just sharing that mindfully. And, and it is a, a mindfulness practice where we self-reflect to notice what's going on in our, in our thoughts, in our feelings, in our physical sensations. 

And just being aware of that and then sharing that information with our partner, the very act of checking in with ourselves and then checking in to the other person, is an act of connection. And one of the things that I think all of us need in our lives and that motivates couples to, want to commit to long-term partnerships is the feeling of being, I'm not alone. 

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we, we crave as human social creatures that we are, we, we crave that feeling of being connected because when I'm connected to someone in a way who really with whom, um, I feel understood and supported and loved, that feeling of insecurity and the need for connection is transformed. 

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I wanna add to what Charlie's saying. What he's saying is bang on, bang on. But it's important for the check-ins to not just be about the troubles mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's not just about the annoying things. That's one place where you can clear some of those up. But everybody has these fleeting moments of appreciation and gratitude, you know, that warm appreciation about your partner, and, they flip by in a nanosecond. 

And so during the check-in look for those feelings of appreciation and gratitude and express those too. But the check-ins aren't all about emotional intimacy the way some people think of them. That it's all the sweet stuff, that's not what it is. It's about being genuine and real about the whole spectrum. So if there's something that's upsetting, that gets out in the open to be dealt with in a responsible way, and also the sweet stuff about appreciation of gratitude and what I love about you, it's the whole thing. 

I love that I do not do this. Um, but I love it. And I could see as a parent with kids that, you know, things go by, whether it's something that annoys you or something that you were really grateful that your partner did, it goes by because you're so in the moment of rushing around and trying to get the kids here or there, that you really do miss those things, both good and bad. Right. So it is so nice to have that special time where you know that you can come together, really think about those things, and have that conversation. 

Oh, I'm gonna add that, I'm gonna add that to my repertoire with my spouse. Thank you, <laugh>. Yes. Yep. 

You'll both be glad that you did 

<laugh>. Yeah. And I won't have to call you for some therapy later on. <laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. So what, so listening is a very important one that, uh, lesson, what other lessons do you share? 

Well, one of the things that we try to help people to recognize is when, when they do listen very often what's going to be activated within them, uh, is a variety of feelings. And sometimes, you know, we'll feel happy to hear what we are hearing, and other times we'll feel bad, we'll feel like we're being blamed for something. We may feel hurt, and we may be confused. And feelings get activated when we hear things that don't fit our sense of who we want to be perceived as being. 

So, you know, if we want people to think of us and see us as, as a kind person, as a generous person, as a loving person, as an accepting person, and we get an accusation from somebody or feedback from somebody that they were hurt or angry or felt, uh, judged by us, then there's a natural tendency to want to become defensive. 

And when you become defensive, you know, like I said earlier, that can take away that feeling of being connected. And you then redirect your focus of attention from wanting to receive what this person is saying to wanting to defend yourself and prevent them from seeing you in an adverse way. And learning how to manage some of those impulses that come up when we do feel the need to justify ourselves when we feel the need to defend ourselves or, or even push back against the words that we're hearing that are upsetting, uh, or disturbing to us managing those impulses and, and really developing the self-discipline to receive information that people are giving us, even when it doesn't fit with what we really want to hear without counteracting, that those things that they're telling us really important. 

Because that keeps the channels of communication open and receptive and, and it prevents the breakdowns that occur when we're pushing back against somebody because we're hearing something that's activating feelings that we don't want to hear. And that's a, that's a skill, that's a, that's a practice that doesn't come easily to a lot of us because, you know, we, we've learned ways to defend and rationalize and justify ourselves, but doing that can really get in the way of the connection. 

That and and the feeling of being understood that we all have, 

Charlie, 

This sounds d like  I'm listening, and I'm like, wow, that is difficult. Right, exactly. Because I think there is this part where we wanna defend ourselves. So I have two questions, I guess. Um, one is how do we not react <laugh>? And two is how do we maybe communicate to our, whether it's a child or spouse or whoever, that it doesn't put them on the defense in the, in the get-go. 

Well, we are gonna have feelings mm-hmm. <affirmative> and to be responsible and caring of ourselves, we need to make room for feeling hurt, for sometimes feeling righteous indignation, I deserve better than that mm-hmm. <affirmative> to, to feel frightened that those are just appropriate under some circumstances when broken agreements take place and so forth. 

But to tell ourselves the truth about what we're feeling and to express those feelings in a responsible way makes all the difference in the world. Because when we're triggered, we're liable to do something or say something that's not coming from our greatest self. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> coming from that reptilian brain, you know, that's right at the top of the spinal cord that only knows fight and fr flight and freeze mm-hmm. 

<affirmative>. And when we can take a breath, take a few breaths, check-in, what's going on with me right now, that really hurt me. 

I feel so wounded. I feel so misunderstood; I feel so devalued. Or I'm frightened that we're never gonna be able to get this right. I don't know if I made a mistake by partnering up with this person, <laugh> that tell ourselves the truth about that, and then to have a little compassion and empathy for our suffering in that moment. But this is done internally and as soon as we are more composed, do you see we're not flooded with feeling where only the reptilian brain is operative. 

When the neocortex is operative, that's the more evolved part of the brain that's right behind the forehead. That's the point where we can think more clearly, not just fight, flight and freeze, and we can see that we have options mm-hmm. <affirmative> when we're a little bit calmer and not so flooded with feeling, we can become more vulnerable and open with the other person and report out about how hurt we feel or how frightened we feel. 

Which takes a lot to be able to do in that moment when everything that we have in us wants to fight them back or run away. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, or we're, we're in shock deer in the headlights that we need to compose ourselves so that we can speak from our vulnerability because it's that vulnerability that allows the connection where we can speak with our deeper experience, not attacking and defending and not running away. 

That creates the learning and understanding, not necessarily agreement, but the learning and understanding. 

Yes. And, and so what I'm thinking of is how do you get both players <laugh> on the same page? Because I can see one person, like ready to be composed for the situation, but the other person is reactive. Like, how does both parties be in this place of not thinking from that reptilian brain of reacting during that conversation? Does that make sense? Yeah. 

Oh, and not only makes sense, but it's <laugh> it happens more often than not. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, it's actually pretty rare in, in many relationships, um, that, uh, both people are really on the same wavelength and on the same level of concern about something mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, there has to be a c certain, um, awareness that that happens. And it's not necessarily an indicator that one of the people is right and the other one's wrong, uh, or that there's a pro, there's, uh, something, something wrong with having this difference of perceptions because it, it's natural, you know, we're going to have different points of view about things. 

We make a, uh, an important point in the book at the very beginning about the distinction between having differences and having arguments, um, uh, or having conflict. Because some people think that, you know, well the, the there needs, we both need to be on the same page about everything. 

And differences are dangerous because, you know, they can diminish, uh, the quality of the relationship. They, they, they can weaken it, they can jeopardize it. Um, differences are gonna be there no matter how hard you try to avoid them. And they're there partly because we tend to be, be attracted to people who do have different predispositions than us who do have different kinds of personalities, who do have different views about things. 

You know, <laugh>, a lot of people have said to us, I don't understand why, you know, I can't just have a relationship with somebody who sees things the way I do. You know, who agrees with me? Why, you know, how come I keep people choosing people who've got different attitudes and different ideas? And it's because I think that there's a kind of innate drive that we all have for wholeness and, and that we don't see the whole picture, uh, when we only have access to our own framework to view things. 

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> in, we only see the, you know, the perspective that our framework gives us. But there are other ways to view things. And I think that we all have, uh, a desire to expand, uh, our perspective on things even though sometimes that that desire may, we may have some resistance to it because it can provoke different, uh, reactions with the other person. 

And I, I wanna add that there is, generally speaking, the passionate desire to learn to do this communication and conflict management skill on a high level. Frequently it's the woman who sees the value in it right away. And I realize that there are always exceptions to the rule, but men grow up in a different culture. And so the women often are the ones who understand the importance of it. 

And for us to step into a leadership role and to be such an, uh, effective teacher that we lead by example, that we inspire the person who may be a really a little reluctant to learn conflict management skills, communication skills, negotiation skills. These are earmarks of an emotionally evolved person, a highly intelligent, emotionally intelligent person. 

And so there's more responsibility for the person who has the passion and the motivation for it to appeal to the other person's enlightened self-interest that you are gonna have a happier life. We're gonna have a greater relationship, we're gonna have less arguments, we're gonna have more harmony and cooperation, and we're gonna have more great sex. So there's a lot in it for both of us. 

So were you the role model in your relationship when you were going through your arguing times? 

Actually, Charlie got to, to be the teacher first. Oh. Because I was so conflict-phobic that I was masking a lot of my discomfort and I had learned in my family of origin to just suck it up and, you know, plaster a smile on my face and everything's fine, everything's fine, everything's fine. When we were first together, Charlie put me on notice that I just don't value dishonesty. I only value honesty and openness, and integrity. 

And if you wanna be with me, you have to start telling me the truth because it's leaking out anyway. I know that not everything is fine all the time. So I will be grateful all my days that Charlie helped me to come out of hiding and be more honest with him. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I was not very skillful about the way I did it at first, but I did come out of hiding even though I was sometimes blamey and threatening and, you know, a bitch on wheels, <laugh>. 

But we kept learning together mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I learned how to speak up and over time I learned how to tell the truth of my experience without the blame and judgment in it, without any threats, without any name calling, without any ultimatums, without the make wrong. And so I feel like I, I pulled ahead in wanting to be more refined about the way we communicated with each other. And then I got to be in the teacher role and he learned how much more effective it was to keep me engaged when he didn't yell. 

And I would say, please just lower your voice. I'm paying attention and I really wanna hear you and understand, but when you yell, it scares me so much. I'm a little deaf. And so we both learned what we needed to learn to be able to speak our truth without the blame and judgment in it that puts the other person on the defensive and makes 'em feel really bad. 

Yeah. And it's just hitting home for me exactly what you're saying. Cuz looking back at my relationship, my husband was a great communicator. He is a great communicator. Um, he comes from a long line of psychologists, and psychiatrists, and, they talk a lot in his family. And growing up my family was much more superficial, asked like, basic questions. So I really had a hard time with the communication piece. And he would always say, you need to go deeper. 

You need to go deeper. And I, I could, I didn't even understand that. And just like you, I had to learn that skill. And I guess for the listeners, it is interesting if there is maybe a leader or a role model, like you said, in in this in your spouse or family, um, really learning that skill is important because now we can communicate, we can go deeper. It's not superficial and it, and it has changed our relationship and it's probably why we're still married 20 years later. 

Right. Um, so yeah, I think that's such an important point. So thank you. 

You're very welcome. And congratulations on coming that far. That's great. 

Well, I think I have to thank my husband after this podcast to thank him for teaching me to communicate <laugh>. 

Yeah. And I, I just want to, you know, underscore one thing that I think that in, in the, the best relationships that we've seen, there isn't a leader in the relationship, but that each person has expertise in different skills, different talents, different gifts that they have, that they take leadership in, in terms of the, the relationship. 

And there's a flexibility and a mutual respe respect that allows each person to allow the other one to be the leader in different areas. Mm-hmm. And for them not, not necessarily to be a follower and, and you know, do what they're doing, but to hold them as having a high level of competence and expertise in different areas. So, so those relationships in which there's a designated leader that has to be in leadership, in a leadership position at all times, uh, that tends to break down mm-hmm. 

<affirmative> if there isn't that mutual respect, because everyone has gifts that they have to offer. And we always attract somebody who is stronger in certain areas than we are. 

Mm-hmm. 

<affirmative>. So to really hold that person, um, as, as being in that position, but not seeing them as always being in the leadership role or the other role, that that's something that we can have the flexibility to go back and forth on. 

Uh, so important and thank you for clarifying that. And I, Charlie, I have to say, I just wanna take you home and put you in my pocket at all time, <laugh>, because I just love both of you how you're just speaking and it's so, yeah. I'm just absorbing all this. So thank you. 

Wow. It is my pleasure. Thank you. 

Yeah. So, okay. So this brings me to, you know, you have such a beautiful relationship and such knowledge. Um, what, what do you feel is a secret to just a great marriage or a relationship? 

Well, one thing that we learned is do how to be champions of repair because they're gonna be breakdowns in the best relationships. They're always misunderstandings and some disappointments and breakdowns. And so we learned many years ago and have been reaping the benefits for a long time now about if I mess up, I fess up. If Charlie messes up, he fesses up. 

We take responsibility of very high level of responsibility, we apologize. We're both forgiving now and we learn from our mistakes and we put the corrections in and we do do-overs and so and so we're enjoying that. One of the things that's really been useful in, in our relationship is having meaningful connections enough of the time that is fulfilling. 

Charlie's very introverted and he can be really happy all by himself behind closed door, go off of days on retreat, you know, and I'm a connection freak. 

So he has stretched into my world to have meaningful connections, skin time looking into each other's eyes, lots of touch and cuddling and hugging and intimate talking. And I have become the guardian of his solitude that I encourage him to take time by himself cuz I know he thrives and he's such a happy camper when he has time alone. So a key to our success has been respecting the differences, learning from the differences, honoring the differences. 

And it's one of the gifts that we give the couples that we work with. And to know that there isn't any perfection was really a struggle for me. Cuz I have this heavy perfectionist in my mind mm-hmm. <affirmative> and where I focus my attention on the beauty that is our relationship and to live in appreciation and gratitude on a regular basis. And to say it inside my own heart and to speak it to Charlie, not a day goes by that he doesn't hear what I love about you. 

When he wakes up in the morning, the first thing he hears is, good morning my love. And that when he tells me I love you, I say, give me the details mm-hmm. <affirmative> <laugh> because we'd like to be specific with each other about what we're appreciating each other for in this particular moment. And you know, from the more mundane things is I'm glad that you handle all the laundry and you spare me from having to do that. You make my life so much easier to the really big things. 

I'm glad that you're a man of integrity and that I can completely trust you and I know you'd never hide anything from me or ever be dishonest or withhold from, you know, from the tiniest things to the biggest things. And to really, um, mirror back each other's greatness to each other is a beautiful thing. When I was, um, thinking about teaching workshops, I was in a panic about it because I'm a recovering shy person. 

People don't know about it that about me now cuz I've come a long way. But I had a terrible fear of public speaking, and Charlie was my believing eyes. He was much more experienced speaking in front of groups, and he says, you're gonna get more comfortable doing it. It's like any skill, the more you do it, the more confident you get. And he was right. And I will be so grateful all my days for how he believed in me because I so enjoy doing this work. Now, the same thing happened with writing books. 

I had a lot of fears and trepidations about it, and he said, ah, no, we can do this. Let's just do it. And here we've written five of them now. 

Yeah. Ugh. I love that. I'm just sitting here going, oh my gosh, I have to do so much work because I say, you know, I leave, and I always wanna like hug and kiss my husband in and say I love you before I leave. You know, or he leaves. But it is, it's very superficial. It's like, love ya, you know, <laugh> and out the door versus like, why I love you. And I, I think it's not only good for them to hear those words and why even from the little things, but it's also good I think for me to really realize and feel why I love him. 

Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, wow. Yeah. My, my own therapy session, <laugh> we'll send you, I think you might need to, but I'm gonna incorporate that because I, I do, I think we get into this rush of just going and going and, and we're saying the words, but it, it doesn't bring in the feeling to either one of us. And, 

And, and you know, Lisa, you're right about how when, when Linda asks me to give her the details, um, and, and then I'm challenged at that moment to self-reflect in order to answer that question. And you know, like she said, in any given moment, I'm gonna see something in that moment in her that maybe I hadn't seen in the previous moment mm-hmm. <affirmative> or in other times in the future. And whenever I'm offered the opportunity, not the obligation, it's not an obligation; it's an opportunity to share what I'm appreciating at this moment right now. 

It not only in is an enhancement to her experience, but it reaffirms to me as I speak those words; it reaffirms and deepens my appreciation and my experience of those feelings. And when we integrate these kinds of patterns into our relationship where we're continually reaffirming our feelings of gratitude and appreciation, we're continually communicating to our partner what they mean to us; then we can get out of some of those negative cycles that cause us to get into arguments because, you know, it doesn't mean that we deny the differences, it just means that we're temporarily redirecting the focus of our attention away from what may feel disappointing or upsetting. 

And we're giving ourselves a break from that for now, and we're deliberately choosing to feel and to express what's right with us. 

Mm-hmm. 

<affirmative> what we appreciate, what we value. So, um, we take those opportunities, um, pretty frequently. I mean there's literally, like Linda said, there is not a day that goes by that we don't share, you know, something along these lines. And it takes so little time and energy to do it. We're not talking about having to sit down and, you know, spend two hours together, you know, <laugh>, you know, coming up with some profound stuff. 

I wanna tell Lisa about a, a study that I get a big kick out of. This was done a few years ago in Great Britain and they had a sample of men who kissed their wife goodbye before they went to work in the morning. And then they had a control group of the men who didn't kiss their wife goodbye before they went to work in the morning. And then they saw how much career success they had, how much money they made, and what their health was like. 

And the men who kissed their wife by before they went to work in the morning had very much more professional success, made a lot bigger income and had health benefits from that. So it doesn't have to take a lot, it just has to be sincere, regular, consistent and heartfelt for you to get these enormous benefits. 

Ugh. Isn't that amazing? I love that study <laugh> and, and honestly it's so easy to focus on the negative about anything and everyone that it's so nice to take the time and really change that to the positive thinking about your significant other or just life in general. So Yes. Yes. That's, I love that. It's perfect. Now I wanna make sure the listeners learn a little bit more about you cuz you have some amazing things on your website. Can you tell you, can you tell the listeners where to find you? 

Www.bloomwork.com. It's not Bloom Works plural, it's Bloom work singular. If you put Bloom Works in it takes you to a, a plant nursery. 

<laugh>. Well, we don't wanna go there. 

No. And we have all kinds of free things on our website, so if people give us their email address, they get a booster shot of inspiration about having a great relationship on once a month basis. There are three free eBooks that people can download. One is the 10 most important things that we learned since we've been married. There's one about sexuality and then there's another one called Going for the Gold that's about the habits of the happiest couples. 

Our book, all five of our books are there for sale. There's a link to Amazon to be able to buy them with one click. There's over a hundred YouTube videos and over 600 blogs that we posted on ology today where we got 10 million. Its 

Whoa. Amazing. 

We have workshops too, so when people get on our email list, whenever we're doing a workshop, that will be on our website and come to them in the form of an, uh, the email newsletter. 

Great. Great. Well, is there anything else that you want our listeners to know today? 

Well, I guess in a nutshell, what I would say is yes, what people say about relationships requiring a lot of work. Yeah, there's some truth to that. Um, but two things, number one, it's worth it. And n number two is that the work gets easier over time. And we're at a stage now and have been for a while where it doesn't feel like work. 

It's sort of like when you get up in the morning and brush your teeth, that doesn't feel like work. You don't say, oh man, do I, I gotta brush my teeth again. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> I just did yesterday. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so when you, it literally becomes a labor of love. So don't be afraid of the word work because it's not what you think. <laugh> 

Oh, 

It's worth it. It's really worth it. 

Ugh. Thank you. Yes. Uh, this has just been a beautiful conversation. You two are beautiful and I just am feeling just so filled and I kind of wanted to go talk to my husband now to be honest. Um, but thank you for sharing all this information and just teaching us so many valuable lessons. I hope the listeners will check out your new book and some of your old books. I'll have them in the show notes as well. 

And thank you for your wonderful questions. And, uh, it is really, uh, very satisfying to begotten. I totally, I totally get it. That you get us and that we're on the wavelength together and that gives me a lot of joy. 

Thank you for listening to today's episode. I love hearing how we can strengthen our communication and listening skills with our loved ones. Linda and Charlie have so many resources on their website, so go to bloom work.com where you'll find free eBooks, videos, services that they provide, events, and of course, a list of their books, including the one we discussed today. End To Arguing 101 Valuable Lessons For All Relationships. Please continue to support Real Life Momz by either telling a friend or subscribing to our podcast for just 1.99 a month. 

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