Embracing Values and Setting Boundaries with Jennifer Schwytzer

Welcome back to the Real Life Momz Podcast. This is a place where you get to take a break from all your to dos and take time to focus on you. I'm Lisa Foster, your host, and today I'm excited to be joined by Jennifer Schwytzer. She is a fellow mom, a life coach, and a social worker. And together we're going to explore how to overcome people pleasing and the importance of setting boundaries. So welcome to the show, Jennifer. Thank you so much, Lisa, for having me. I'm excited.

Oh, I'm excited to have you because we all have a little people pleasers inside of us, even if we don't know it. I'm going to read a little snippet from your bio that I saw that I think people can relate to and really ties into our topic today. So you had wrote, if you look up the definition of people pleaser, you would find a picture of me up close and personal.

I was the one who said yes to everything and never stuck to the boundaries I set. Like totally relatable. I mean, we set those [00:01:00] boundaries and like, yeah, what happened? So I'd love to hear more about your story about being a people pleaser and just what was the moment that actually changed you to say, okay, we got, we got to do something different here.

Yeah. Yeah. And, honestly, I think we're totally in this place where we never know where a people pleaser until we're like way down that rabbit hole of, oh my gosh, I've kind of lost sight of what I'm actually wanting to do and what I actually want to spend my time on. And it is so easy to people please and not even know you're doing it. For me, the biggest thing was not really being very clear on what my boundaries actually were. And so I love that we're talking about both boundaries and people pleasing because I really think they go together and to be aware and know what your boundaries are, you're, you're much more able to start saying no to things.

You're much more able to recognize where do I want to be spending my time? What do I want to be [00:02:00] doing? And as moms, we don't have the extra time to just give. And so recognizing like. Where are my boundaries? What are they? And how do I just stop saying yes to everything to make someone else happy? Am I saying yes to this because it's what I want to do or it's because I, it's what I think somebody else wants me to do.

Oh yeah, such a good point. And half the time I don't think we even know. The answer to that. Right. So I guess that is my first question is how do you know what to say yes to what to say no to? So I like to start when I, when I work with folks, I really like to start working on what are our values, what is important to us and what are our priorities.

And I work with a lot of people who, have a career, have a family, have friends. And so it's like, What, what in there is, is most important to you? Let's really kind of weed through and pull out, like, what are your priorities? [00:03:00] And, and we'll sometimes go through this for a couple of weeks until we're really, really clear on what is it that's important to you and where do you want to be spending your time?

Because once we have that, kind of core foundation of What's important to us, what our priorities are, that's where we get to make the next decisions. That's where we get to start setting the boundaries. That's where we get to start asking ourselves, does this fit into what I'm looking for? Does this fit into the foundation that I'm looking to build for myself?

And so really recognizing what is it that you want to see for your life, your family, , what is it that's important and how do we get our, get ourselves there. And it's funny because as you're saying it, like I've done this work so I get it, but however, as you're saying it like that question would break me out into like a panic attack, to be honest, like what's important to me, because it's very intertwined with not just what's important to me but who am I as a [00:04:00] mom, how does it affect everybody else, and how, how do we work past some of the barriers.

And I. And I think you're right because for a lot of people, it is terrifying. And I've had people come two sessions and they're like, I can't do this. It's too much. And so, some people just might not be at that place, but I do think for those people that might struggle a little bit more, you might need the help in, in getting there.

So, , if you're working with a coach, a therapist, if you're working with a family member, a friend, like. Open up those conversations and really dig into what am I missing? And, , a lot of people that, that I work with, , they'll struggle with, I, I take the stress from work home and, that takes away from my time with my family or my kids or, , and so we kind of weed through that, what's important about that time with your kids,

so a lot of times it's. Getting to that kind of root and asking questions. And sometimes, honestly, we're not ready to ask ourselves those questions. So it has to [00:05:00] feel like a very safe environment to do that. And , even if you just think what's one thing that I want to do a little bit differently and how do I put some value on that?

So if you're looking for one place to start, maybe it's just asking yourself that question. And that's makes it. Like easier, just trying to say, I have to do all the things that are important to me. And I also think those things can change, right? Because we evolve, even as our kids get older, we're changing too.

And our interests are changing. So , I feel like we need to like revamp our list every. Every quarter. We definitely do. It's definitely like something that you should kind of be going back to and being like, does this still apply? But you know, another thing that, you just mentioned that, these lists could be so big and the, the, the idea of like, maybe that looks like just writing down a bunch of ideas.

What you can do is start to pair those together. And so [00:06:00] you're going to see some common themes come up and that's what you're going to focus on. So somebody might say like, Oh, well, I want to focus on my nutrition and, , I want to walk every day and so, okay, that's like healthy lifestyle management.

So something that you value is that feeling of being healthy. So a lot of times we can kind of group them together, so it's not so overwhelming. And we like. Go down to like two or three at the most. And I think that's a good point. Having a little bit less, just those two or three, because you are talking about almost like your core values, right?

So, what is the core value is like, yes, I want to take a walk every Day, but is the core value is that I really need to balance my nervous system or something like that. Right. What is the core? Right. Right. And that, that sounds like, yeah, it takes a lot of unfolding. Yeah. Do you, I know you work with a lot of clients too.

So do you give them specific exercises to do to get to that list? [00:07:00] Yeah. And oftentimes I'll do exercises that, we go like five questions deep. And so we'll start moving down these questions and then we'll bring them together and say, okay, let's work through them together. So, I agree that it can be overwhelming if you're just, already overwhelmed with life and work and in your home life.

And somebody says, what's important to you? You're like, I don't even know, , I'm not sure. And so recognizing that. Maybe that's your point, like, okay, I need to slow down and maybe really think about how I can start to weed through, , just putting something on my agenda that goes in the direction of, of what's important to me and my values and, and getting to that place.

So we worked on , what's important to us. Hopefully we have one or two things that are important to us. Then what's the next step? Yeah. So then we start making decisions and this is, you know, people have so much resistance with this. We [00:08:00] start making decisions based on that. So when somebody asks us, Hey, can you do this, this, and this.

And you have to pause for that moment and think back to, okay, does that align with the things that I'm looking to bring into my life right now? And if the answer is no, there's kind of your tangible evidence for, you know, so to speak that it's okay to say no to that. Maybe family time is something that is, is on your priority list.

And somebody has asked you, Hey, we have this, volunteer event after work, and I really need bodies. And we would really love to have you, your daughter has a soccer game, that people pleaser would say, Oh, absolutely. I'll be there., I'm I'll, you know, what time do you need me? What do I need to bring?

And the person who's looking at their priorities will say, I'm so sorry, but my schedule is already booked tonight. And so you're, you're [00:09:00] just, you're taking those decisions and you're basing that on, what's important to me and what am I saying yes to really, really considering, you know, where those yeses are going for you.

I feel like as I got older, I felt less like I needed to say yes. Because I remember back in the day that I would say yes to something and the rest of the time I was just trying to figure out how to get out of it. Right. Right. Well, and I think it creates so much anxiety for us because it's like how am I in two different places? I don't really want to do this. Am I going to do good work? Am I going to really feel present?

Well, now I'm missing that like your wheels are spinning and that anxiety is not good for us. No, no, we have enough stuff to deal with. We don't need to deal with how to get out of something we said yes to, right? Right, right. Okay, but it's still difficult, right, to say no. There are certain things. Okay, here, here's the gray area, right?

There are [00:10:00] certain things I can see, like, no, that doesn't align with me. Really, there's no hard feelings, like, no, I don't want to volunteer. That's an easy one, right? But there are things that we all have, right.

That are kind of a little bit half too, right. That are required. But you really have no interest. What do you do with that gray area? Cause there's a big one. So I'm going to tell you to start in those easier areas because you're going to start, you're going to start. It's going to, it becomes a little bit easier over time.

And like you said, the older we get, the easier it is. So if you're feeling like super uncomfortable, start in those spaces that it's like, okay, no, one's going to get mad. No, one's going to get hurt if I say no. So I'm going to start there and like test the waters a little bit. So start over there. And then yes, there are those gray areas and there are those, very black and white areas where the expectation is there to say yes.

And so what I'll do a lot of times with [00:11:00] clients is really, focus on, okay, how do we get our priority in, how do we get what's important to us in, in a different time during the day? So we're not saying, you know, this is. Off of our plate or gone. We're getting it in. We're nourishing ourselves in a different way, but still able to fulfill our requirements.

So it's not like this or that it's like, you know, the, and, you know, how can I do this and that? And so sometimes it's just about kind of thinking, okay, if I do this. How can I kind of rearrange things so that I make sure I get things in for myself today or do what's on my own to do list and, and sometimes those yeses can be like, yes, I can help you, but I have four other things on my plate before that happens, before I can get to that, so never putting aside what it is you have planned for yourself to get through that day.

, and just kind of how can I do this and that not an, if, or, or [00:12:00] not a, this or that, , how can I do this and that? And I like that. I like that a lot because, a lot of times I think we drop our thing, then do the other thing that we didn't really want to do. So I like the fact that if you have stuff on your to do list already for you, that you're not just going to knock that out. You can say, okay, I can help you with this, but not until. This time or after dinner or whatever, or I'm not free tonight. Yeah. Maybe tomorrow.

Exactly. And setting some expectations around that, that you don't just drop everything. Like if it's a work request or if it's, you know, something that comes in from your partner or whatever that looks like, you know, you're not just, I will, I'm happy to help you with that. Or I'm happy to take that off your plate.

Yeah. These are just some things that I have to get done first. And so just recognizing some flexibility is okay. And I think people get stuck when they try and set boundaries. It's either very firm [00:13:00] or it doesn't happen. And so we have to, we do have to have flexibility because things change every single day and different requests are going to come in and we have to be prepared for that.

Yeah. Let's talk about that, that flexibility of boundaries. Cause that's a really interesting concept because you think of boundaries that if you, if you do something and someone steps over the line once, then they can always step over the line. Right. Yep. So, but what you're saying is like you can be flexible but still have a boundary.

So yeah, tell me a little bit about that. And I think that we can take, we can take the workplace, for example, and, if People are going to test your boundaries. People are going to test what you're going to be able to stick to and what you're not. And so it's our job to kind of, you know, continue to remind them of our boundaries, but it's also our job to be flexible in that if somebody asks us, like, we're still a team player.

You know, we're, [00:14:00] we still want to be seen as like, you know, Oh, don't go ask Jen because she's definitely not going to help you. You know, you don't want to be seen like that in the workplace. So when you have the flexibility, it's like, actually my schedule just cleared up for the afternoon. I'm happy to help with someone else's project, or I'm happy to send out , an email that says I'm available to assist anybody who might need help.

And so the idea that, We're not saying we're not team players., and this goes, for home, for, for work, , we have to recognize, , people are going to test our boundaries, but that's okay. And it's okay to, it's okay to continue to. to tell them our boundaries.

It's okay to continue to talk about our boundaries, but it's also okay to be flexible in that you're still that team player that wants to be able to help and provide support for the rest of your team or family. And I think as people start to learn what it is that's important to [00:15:00] you, right, that you're saying yes to, I think naturally, those are the things that people start to ask you to do.

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. So. Kind of bouncing back to a little bit of the people pleaser.

Where do you think that actually stems from? Because there's a deeper core issue here than just like, I want to, I want to help everybody, right? Yep. Well, I can say, you know, I can speak for myself personally. , I've always struggled with anxiety and my brain is always on and I think that a lot of women, especially the numbers are really high for women who struggle with anxiety and, the thinking that, we need to take care of everything.

We need to make sure everything's completed, done perfection. , I just got off a call earlier with a woman who just talked about her need for perfection and, if we're not perfect, what happens? Are we replaceable? Are we, [00:16:00] you know, and so, you know, Those, those thoughts can just kind of just continue to go and go and circle in your mind.

And so for me, a lot of my people pleasing came from, , that underlying anxiety of, you , am I doing a good enough job? And, you know, being in a workforce that, I primarily worked in a hospital setting and I remember when I graduated from social work, , I'm in my mid twenties and I'm working with doctors who have been doctors for 60 years and nurses who are very seasoned.

And I'm like, how do I belong here? And you, you get those thoughts. And I think as a, as a parent too,, we, we are, um, currently fostering two nine month old babies and they came home from the hospital. My anxiety went wild because I thought. What do I know about babies? What do I know about keeping children alive and well?

And, that anxiety of the what ifs and your mind [00:17:00] kind of taking control over some of those things, I think that really can impact your need to Make everything on the outside look really good. Yeah, that perfection. So I didn't realize like people pleasing and perfectionism are kind of intertwined, but it sounds like they are.

Yeah. I think, I think that there's definitely a connection between them because, when you are. People pleasing, you're like, you know, you're wanting everybody to think that, I'm that person that's always going to say yes, or always going to help, or always going to be there.

And there's that perfectionism piece. That's like, well, if I'm there, it's always done and it's always done well. And I'm always available. So I definitely think there's a connection. So it's interesting that when you give the example of you being like 20 and in the hospital, cause I was the, I was PT 20s, right?

And in the hospital and exactly like, I'm supposed to like get everyone better, you know, like that was the expectation. I mean, that's a lot of pressure of. Yeah. You know, for [00:18:00] anyone. And I think it's interesting because I do think that's a very moldable time for us because you're out of, the care of your family and you're now starting to like venture and be independent and have a job.

And it is a lot of pressure that you feel like you have to live up to these standards. And it's funny because after, I don't know how long you've been out in your field, but I mean, after like, you know, 20 some odd years, you're kind of like, No, like nobody knows what they're doing out there. Like everyone's just walking around confidently not knowing what they're doing and they're doing a great job.

Yeah. I actually, in the hospital I, I was surrounded. I, I felt like by people who just knew what they were doing. Always on like super confident. And I remember I transitioned out of the hospital into coaching about three, three, three and a half years ago, one of my first clients was one of the nurses I worked with and had such like imposter syndrome of like, I'm [00:19:00] never good enough, not good enough.

And I'm like my mind was blown. And I was like, Oh, Okay, like so many things started like falling into place after that moment, but what people are showing on the outside is not always what's going on on the inside. And that's why I think these conversations are so important for people to hear because exactly, I would be told that like, you look calm on the outside.

You're so calm. I'm like, well, that's lovely. But inside, it's like a three ring circus that I'm like freaking out about having panic attacks. Like, I'm glad I look like really easy and calm right now. It's not how I feel at all. And I don't think it was how I was trying to even present. No. And we want to also look like we have something together, you know, and especially, especially in the healthcare field, you definitely want to feel together.

Yes. And you know, something that, that like still baffles me is I'm in a field now where it's okay to [00:20:00] say like, I don't know the answer to that. Like, that's a really great question. Yes. And when I was in that corporate hospital setting, I don't think that that was an okay answer. my, my thought process was, well, I need to have the answers.

Like if I don't, who doesn't, but , that is not the case, but that's like the perception that we have that. We have to know what we're doing. We have to be on all the time. And, , that's ingrained in us. And, I've been in the social work field for almost 20 years and it's, it's starting to change.

It's starting to, be in a place where, and I think schools are starting to do this too. Like pay more attention to wellness and, you know, taking care of their employees and the importance of that, because it never was there before. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree when I learned the words, I don't know to say out loud, my life changed.

I like, it was like a weight was lifted off of me and I say it to my clients. I say it to my family and my kids. I [00:21:00] say it as much as possible whenever I don't know, because there is a lot of pressure to have to know everything. And it's so funny because the response that you get, even from patients that I treat.

I'll just say, you know, I don't know, but we can work with this, you know, like I'm happy, like we can figure things out together. Right. , but they are relieved to know that someone is honest, telling them just like it is, and that they don't have to know all the answers either. Right, right. And that people pleasing brain of mine like I'll catch it sometimes because I'll try and be like, Oh, well maybe and maybe and I'm like, Whoa, whoa, stop.

Actually, I have no idea like let's figure this out together, but you know that that people pleasing brain of mine tries to seep through sometimes and I have to catch it because, I always want to have the answer and I want to be available and I want to fix something and I can't do that all the time.

And sometimes I forget that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:22:00] So when those little moments come where you need to remind yourself, are there things that like kind of you ask yourself or, you know? Yeah. Some words that maybe you can share some, one thing that has really helped me is just to slow down and like, take a deep breath and okay, let me have you ask me that question again.

And so then it gives my brain a chance to, really kind of process again. I'm definitely a processor. So, , I have to catch myself, slow down, take that deep breath though, to really like, make sure that I'm not just. spewing out an answer just to provide an answer. And so for me, it's really my connection with the people that I work with is the most important thing to me.

And so I'll say, okay, let me just slow down for a minute. Why don't you ask me that question again, or let me ask it to you and make sure I'm understanding you correctly so that I can just slow down, take a step back and, and kind of regroup myself. I love that. Cause I [00:23:00] think we always feel like we have to like say an answer quickly or fill space.

I'm here to say there is nothing wrong with silence and everyone wants to fill it, but like you can be, you can pause for anything we're doing right. To really think about, do I really want to do that or not? Do you know, how do I want to react or not? You know, like, And that sometimes really does bring a lot more clarity to whatever situation you're in.

So yeah, I, I love that. And I love to use the example too. Like if somebody texts us, we have a moment to process that before we respond. We have a moment to take a look at our calendar and see like, okay, if I say yes to this, What would I be saying no to? And so you have that ability to slow down, ask yourself some of those questions.

And when we're in person, we forget to give ourselves that opportunity. And I think that's a really important piece [00:24:00] is allow yourself that ability to be like, you know, You know what? That's, you know, a great question. Let's, you know, let's jot that one down. Let me see if I can figure that out. I'm not sure, or if it's a request, like, oh, let me just check my schedule before I give you a response, or, you know, whatever that is, just allow yourself a moment to just kind of take it in, process it, and figure out if that's doable for you.

I love that. And I think we all need to like write down some of those sentences you just said, right to have them handy because like a lot of times we are in the moment and as much as we want to slow down, we don't have like something on hand to say, Oh, let me get back to you. Like, which is so easy. Let me get back to you.

Let me think about that. Let me figure it out. You know, like let me check my schedule. Yeah, that's so easy. Anything, anything that's going to buy you time is okay. Exactly. But you know, it comes to your mind, like, yeah, sure. That's fine. That's the one that we're programmed to take. It [00:25:00] comes out immediately.

And you're like, Oh, no, no. So, yeah. So I think that's a great, option is to have some of these other Sentences just in the back of her head. So when something comes up, we can access them really quickly to give us that space to then make a better decision for us. Absolutely. Okay. So is there like three things that you want moms to really just start doing to help create these boundaries, like what would those three things be?

Recognizing it's okay to say yes to yourself because we are always last on the list and we always prioritize everyone else over ourselves. So recognizing you can't set boundaries without taking care of ourselves, I think is the number one piece. So saying yes to yourself is so important. So, so important to take a moment for yourself during the day.

If that's [00:26:00] just,, a walk outside around the garden making lunch for yourself rather than the whole entire family, stepping away from your computer to drink your coffee or fill your water bottle or whatever you need to do. Take a moment during the day just for you.

So you can have that ability to respond with, give me a minute. Let me check my schedule because we have to be in a good mental place in order to do that. And then three, it's just, recognizing that. If you want to start prioritizing those values that those, you know, what's important to you, you can.

You can absolutely do that. There is time. We all say there's never enough time. There is when it is important to us. We can make time for it and we can make it happen. Things just have to look a little bit different. Yes, for sure. I mean, how many times do you not have time and all of a sudden your kid says, I need this and you do it, right?

All of a sudden that [00:27:00] time appears. Right? So yes, I agree. And I think there's secret time that I like, that I personally use a lot. Like if I have to pick up my kid, I get there half an hour early so I can do something for myself in the car. And usually it's like a meditation, listen to a book, read whatever it is in the car.

I also leave work. Okay. I know my, everyone's listening to the podcast. So the word is out people, but I leave work 30 minutes later, then I'm done. Because , if it's, if it's a night, I don't have to pick up my kids from school. I know that I can have some downtime, get myself together, do something for myself even in that 30 minutes and then, and then come home.

So yes, that's a little secret between us moms, hopefully, and my family doesn't listen to this podcast. Secret safe with me. That's okay. Right. I'm doing boundaries. That's it. That's what I do. It's all out. Exactly. That's the boundary. Like. But that's you being able to recognize the importance of taking care of you.

Right. Because then when I do [00:28:00] come home and see my family, I can be on, , if I had rushed right from work and then got in and had dinner and did all the things. I'm not, yeah, I don't want to listen to everybody's stuff. I don't want to do all the things, but I show up ready because I've taken a little time for myself.

Even if it's just a few minutes. Yeah. Absolutely agreed. I love the idea of the getting to the daycare a little bit early or school a little bit early. My kids don't talk yet. So sometimes I'll just put them in the car because they're great in the car. We'll drive to daycare and I'll have 15 extra minutes in the car before I bring them in because they're quiet.

They're great. And you know, But I have 15 minutes just to like, check my emails real quick, or, listen to that podcast that I've been putting off. And I love it. Like I'll just sit in the parking lot and just have those 15 minutes. The kids are in the car. We're all good. Yes. I mean, it's, there's so many ways, so many creative ways.

Okay. So where can the listeners find you and [00:29:00] tell us like what you have to offer people? Yeah. So you can find me at kindfulnesscoaching.com and I have a guide for foster parents and the guide is self care for foster parents, making time in your day to take care of yourself.

Could be used for any mama though. Perfect. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on and telling us a little bit about people pleasing and making boundaries. This was just so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.

I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this episode. It was so much fun to talk to Jennifer and learn more about setting boundaries and finding out what's important to us so we know what to say yes or no to.

To learn more about Jennifer and what she offers, just click on the link in the show notes. And remember, until next week, keep taking time for yourself because you matter.