Embracing Anxiety: A Special Community for Finding Peace with Dr. Jeanne Retief

Welcome back to the Real Life Momz podcast. This is a place where you can take a break from all your to do's and take time to focus on you. I'm Lisa Foster, your host, and I love helping moms prioritize themselves, whether that's mentally, emotionally, or physically. Physically, my guest is a fellow mom, Dr.

Jeanne Retief. She is an entrepreneur, skincare creator, and anxiety advocate. She knows the feeling of being alone and isolated. And that is why she founded the Anxious Calm Academy and community for others like herself, seeking a peaceful coexistence with their anxiety and a quality of life, despite their wiring.

Hi, Jeanne. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm so glad to have you. And I love that you talk about your wiring because I think it makes me feel that we can accept who we are fully because we're wired that way. Like it doesn't mean [00:01:00] it has to be a negative thing. It's, that's who we are and it's okay.

Yeah, that's so true. And it took me a long time to get there. I was diagnosed with panic disorder in 2015, but by that point, I think I realized that I'd probably been dealing with some kind of anxiety crisis for most of my life. It was just undiagnosed. I severely mismanaged to hit. And I really just Had my breaking in 2020.

And the reason why I speak about wiring is like, if you're anxious, like me, there's a big possibility that you're also a perfectionist. So you're always trying to do everything perfectly. And when I was diagnosed, I just thought like, well, I got this. I can, I can fix this. I can read all the books. I can follow all the guidelines and do exactly what the doctor tells me and make all the lifestyle changes.

And I read all the self help books and, it just seemed to me like every guru had the story of, I [00:02:00] was where you are now. And then I found this golden miracle cure. And if you do this too, you'll never have a panic attack again. You'll never have anxiety again. And when I would relapse, because that happens when you have panic disorder, you cannot control that.

I would go into this really dark spiral of. like self loathing and just misunderstanding of like, what did I do wrong? It must be me. I mean, if these people could all get over it, I'm not meditating correctly. I'm not positive enough. And then when I founded Figgy Beauty and the anxious calm, I, I had to really take a step back and reassess where I am.

And I just realized that nothing I do is going to change my wiring. This is just the way I'm made. And that's maybe okay. So instead of like constantly seeking to fix me maybe I can realize that I'm not wrong and I'm not broken. I just need [00:03:00] to read my manual. Oh, I love that you said that. Like not Fix me, right?

Because there is, there's nothing wrong. And I think you're talking about like, you know, the anxiety piece, right? Cause a lot of us struggle with anxiety on some sort of level, right? Whether it leads to like panic attacks or you're just anxious about something going on. But I love that. We don't have to fix ourselves, right?

Why can't it be part of us, but we can still function? Yeah, exactly. And I mean, we live in a society today where stress is at an all time high. Anxiety is at an all time high and panic disorder is, as it has been explained to me, one of those diagnoses that isn't necessarily genetic. It's usually bred from complex.

Post traumatic stress. So that's why I don't always have control over my panic attacks. Like I can identify most of my triggers. I can work with them. I can give my anxiety a seat at the [00:04:00] table and ask it when to speak and when to be quiet. But I will always have triggers that I don't know, trigger me. Like

two months ago. I had. Not a full panic attack, but like a real episode. And I was in a really good space and I just couldn't understand like what happened. I'm going through all of my triggers. I couldn't identify anything. And then I realized I'd watched a series and there was this protagonist in the series, which was an older gentleman.

And the gentleman had said something in the effect of you must hate me. And that is exactly what my abuser told me before he disappeared. And then. Like the wheels clicked and these type of things like I don't have control over that, you know There's always something that could link me back to the trauma and I don't even realize it.

So that for me makes it even worse for these people to stand there and to tell me that I'm doing [00:05:00] it wrong I should never be able to have, you know, if I do this, never have a panic attack again. It's like you don't know somebody else's story. You don't know what they're dealing with every day in their lives, what difficulties they have, what inner challenges they're dealing with.

Yeah. And that, and that is hard because I think people are out there to help others. Right. Like yourself, you're kind of like walking alongside your community, which is what I really love about it. And we'll talk about that in a minute or so.

But but I think a lot of us do want to help others. And we put out there, like, it's a one size fits all, right? Like, if you do this, then this will help you. However, you're right. Like, every person is their own person.

So. If there isn't just one cure for all, we have to, work with the person themselves. They have different triggers. They have different backgrounds. They have different, everybody's different. It doesn't matter that they all suffer from panic attacks or just everybody is different. [00:06:00] So that is something to consider when you're taking advice from whether even a podcast like this.

Or looking on Instagram or even seeing a therapist, you know, you want somebody who truly sees who you are and what is making you up, not just the disorder. I completely agree. And that's a hard one to find sometimes because I don't know why, but I feel like we have this amazing awareness of mental illness these days, and there's a lot of talk about it.

And it's the conversation around things like depression and bipolar and all of that is so much more open, but there's still this huge misunderstanding and stigma attached to anxiety. Like, you know, one of the most common things would be like, Oh, you're just stressed, and you're not there is a huge difference between anxiety and stress.

Stress is good for you. It's a normal hormone. Everybody has [00:07:00] it. It helps you achieve. You come off it, your body recovers. When you have anxiety, you can never come off that. Buzzing feeling you're like your body just doesn't work that way. So it's not within your control and, and even if you don't have an anxiety disorder as moms, you know, we're trying to do everything that we possibly can and achieve as much as we can.

And a lot of us. suffer at one time or another of burnout. And a lot of times with burnout comes some kind of anxiety or anxiety attack or having to go back into that kind of foundational phase of understanding, okay, how do I deal with stress? What do I leave? What do I take on? So it's so all encompassing and I just feel like the conversation about it is so generalized.

Yeah, I love that you pointed that out because I do think even on this podcast we talk a lot about stress and overwhelm and I think it does get very confused with anxiety. [00:08:00] So it's really not the same thing. And what I'm hearing from you is that stress is also something maybe we can control more, like how much of it is in our life versus when it comes to true anxiety, you might not be able to fully control that.

Is that correct? Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, that's That is correct. And with anxiety or an anxiety disorder, it's a diagnosable mental illness. You need to be diagnosed with it by a therapist that is a trauma informed or anxiety informed therapist. And there are many types of anxiety disorders.

There's panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, PTSD, complex PTSD, OCD. So you need to understand like, what are you dealing with? And it's also possible. Like I said, that you are dealing with a. Just a phase in your life that you're going through intense chronic stress or burnout, or maybe something big has happened in your life, like a loss of a loved one or a divorce or a huge move that can increase your anxiety levels.

And you would need to [00:09:00] have guidance from your medical team, just, you know, Usually for a couple of months to get you kind of through that and back to a good space. But yeah, I mean, anxiety and stress, those are two completely different things that one can lead into the other, of course, but stress, like I say, is a normal human emotion, , and, and I talk about that a lot because I also feel like there's this over emphasis on being overstressed and just.

everything is stressful. You know, we also have to understand that as part of the normal spectrum of human emotions, we're going to feel things that aren't always nice. Irritation, frustration, anger, stress, and that's okay. That's part of life. It's when it exceeds that threshold where we have to start paying attention.

And unfortunately, many times with moms, again, trying to do the best that they can. We miss that threshold. We just keep going. Right. Cause we [00:10:00] don't, we don't stop to pay attention to even how we're feeling. And then by that time you're, you've crossed the line somewhere, right? Yeah. There's somebody else that's more in need than you.

True, but not true. And that's why we're here today, right? This is the time to prioritize us. So what What methods have you used? Are there strategies that are really a go to that has really helped you kind of go into a recovery phase? It sounds like you kind of bounce back and forth. So we're not always in recovery phase, right?

But but yeah, is there anything that's really been a go to that's really been very helpful for you? I think the most important part for me was realizing that there is a space. between breaking and recovery. When you break and you go to see a therapist or a doctor, we live In this world where not only do the doctors come at it from this viewpoint, you expect them to come at it from this viewpoint is how fast can I be fixed?

How fast can I be normal again? [00:11:00] So you go from the breaking to, okay, make lifestyle changes, meditate, do this go to therapy twice a week. But you need to sit in that space for a minute. And just recognize where you are, that you're not okay, that it's okay not to be okay. How did you get here?

How are you gonna move forward? And just feel that breaking and that pain and then move on. Because if you miss that space, like I did for many years, You get stuck in that space. So you're always in false recovery and false starts towards a good maintenance foundation because you haven't existed in that space long enough.

I always like to think of it as Dr. Seuss's waiting space, you know, and all, all the places you will go, like waiting for a train to come or a plane to go, you get stuck there. And you can't figure out how to heal. Cool. and what the journey to healing looks like if you don't [00:12:00] know where you're starting from.

It's, it's like putting something into google maps without saying directions from my location. Like you need to know where you are in order to figure out Where you want to go and that doesn't have to mean that you need to know where you want to go immediately It's just that you have to take that time for yourself You have to feel those uncomfortable feelings and you have to get very real and true with where you are in that moment I love that.

And I'm also wondering, if this is part of who you are, Is in this space also a time to kind of say it's also okay to be okay with that this is part of you too.

Does that make sense? Yeah, 100%, although I will say If you experience it like I do, that's one of the most challenging things to do Is that acceptance acceptance for me came there a lot later I do think that [00:13:00] acceptance would have come easier and sooner for me if I had spent time in this space if I knew this space existed actually because, it just wasn't the way that My treatment plan went, but it's completely, I think that's, that's the main thing of being in this space is giving yourself that permission to say, it's okay that I'm not okay, because I've recognized it, and now I can do something about it, whereas I'm not avoiding it or And I always say that we always have so many reasons why we shouldn't spend time in this space, like I'll look after myself in a week, or let me just get the kids to summer camp, or let me just get the client this email. But then if you look at it from the flip side, is this where you always want to be? Or how you want to function from, right? Is this what you want it to look like? Because that is what it's gonna look like if you don't take this minute to be honest and truthful with yourself and [00:14:00] move on from this space.

And I'm imagining it's really hard to work with yourself at that point because you're in, you're in this space, right? So you're noticing it, but you're also really in it with whatever you're struggling with. So are there ways that when you're in this space that can make it easier for you to sit in it and really work with it?

There are things you can do, but whatever you do, that space is going to suck no matter what you do. It's not a fun ride. But in my course, the breaking on the Anxious Calm Community, that's what that course is all about. It's all about that space and how to navigate that space. And. The thing about it is that everything sounds so small and minuscule, but those steps to you are huge leaps of faith at that moment.

So understanding like, okay, just the basics of I've been diagnosed with anxiety or burnout. What does that mean? What does that [00:15:00] mean for my body? Who do I talk to? Where do I go for help? What do I ask my therapist? If, if they put me on medication, what am I supposed to ask my psychiatrist? What do I expect from this?

How do I deal with being alone and isolated? You know, when you wake up at 2 a. m. and the whole world is sleeping and you're having an anxiety attack, what do you do? What do you do with your insomnia, with your night terrors? And I mean, one of the key things for me, and that is, The acceptance of this does happen to me sometimes, so having an SOS kit with me at all times so that I am prepared.

What is that, an SOS kit? So for me, that consists of, first and foremost those bare claw noise canceling headphones that go over your whole ear. Okay, because I get easily overstimulated and overwhelmed, especially when I travel in airports with a lot of people and that's a huge trigger for me. And that kind of silences out the [00:16:00] noise and it helps me be alone in my head. I always have a protein snack with me because when I get hungry, I get shaky, I get dizzy, and those are some of the symptoms I associate with a panic attack. So that's a trigger. So I always have a protein snack to munch on if I feel that happening. I always have a bottle of water with me because my biggest symptom is the feeling that I'm choking or that I cannot swallow.

And I don't know, there's just something about taking a sip of water and your body just Doing what it naturally does to swallow the water and you feel it kind of going down your throat to make that mental connection of, Oh no, I'm okay. I can't swallow. Everything's working the way it's supposed to be working.

So a brown paper bag is another one I always have with me for, for when you may start to hyperventilate. I've, I've gotten a lot of judgment about this because people will say like, I'm, pausing my own anxiety by, by having this with me or I'm overreacting to this. But if [00:17:00] you've ever had panic attacks, you know that you would do anything to avoid it.

And if I know exactly what my triggers are and I can take small things with me in order to make my day feel more comfortable and help me go to stressful meetings and on planes. Then why not? Oh, my God. I think everyone should have an SOS kiss for anything. Like, I'm just sitting here going, Oh, my God, what can I make?

Like, forget the panic attacks. I think we just need one, right? It's almost like carrying stuff for your kid around, right? Yeah, yourself. I love that. This is patented. We need SOS kids for everything. Yeah. Don't worry what other people are saying. We're going to throw that out there.

I love that. But okay. So as somebody who is a mom and is going through all this panic attacks anxiety, like what do you wish you knew? I wish I had been more open and honest with my child about my diagnosis earlier on. Because she's six [00:18:00] now, she saw me for the first time having a panic attack when she was three and a half.

And obviously, You know, my husband is an amazing support system. He knows my triggers. He knows my tells my science, but sometimes it's impossible to avoid. Like I would always try to never have a panic attack in front of her, but you know, it does happen. And my go to for that is I need to protect her from this.

Like this is way too much for her to handle. This is not something that we're going to have a conversation about. And that actually ended up causing her anxiety because she started getting a lot of separation anxiety, which never had with me. She had a lot of questions I could see like her behavior was just off.

And. You know, I know we hear it a lot, but kids are a lot smarter than we think. And they pick up on emotional things and it stresses them out. I think a lot more to not understand what's going on because I mean, [00:19:00] their minds are so imaginative, right? But can you just imagine the things that they are dreaming up in their mind about what's going on with mommy?

So, yeah, I'm, I'm very open and honest with her now. We have very open conversations about emotions, even the uncomfortable ones, about stress. And I just explained to her like she's in that stage now where, you know, you have the monster in the closet, but you're kind of brave, like, Oh, you know, it's not real.

Yeah. Monster spray, you know, all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I just told her like, you know, of the monster in your closet and you say it's not real, mommy's brain doesn't know it's not real. And like I admire you so much for being able to tell that, but mommy's brain just doesn't work that way. So when this happens, it's just because mommy's afraid of the monster.

And I don't know how to tell myself there is no monster. And that made a huge difference. I mean It's, there's a fine line. It's definitely not something we discuss [00:20:00] all the time, every day. I don't put it on her. I don't make it her problem, but she understands what is happening, should it happen. I think it may be wrong.

She may hate me for this someday, but I think it, it helps her to not be traumatized by it because she understands. One, what is happening, two, that we're safe and we have a system in place for it and everybody understands what's happening and it's okay to talk about it. And also, she's also learning if she should ever have signs of it.

You know, not that she will, but she also knows that it's kind of normal. Like she knows she's on a loan in it either. So yeah, I think, I think that is great. And I think kids do understand a lot more than we give them credit for. And I think when they're involved, especially in a family matter like that, it is.

It's so important to include them. So I know you offer you, like I said before, your community, you walk alongside them. You're [00:21:00] like healing yourself while working with people and healing and they're healing. So that is beautiful. Tell us a little bit like what communities you have, what you offer and where the listeners can find you.

I love that you said that about walking alongside the community, because I really believe That healing is not a destination. Like I'll always be in recovery. I'll always be healing there. There are things in all of our lives that we will always be on the healing journey for the joy and the victory in that is realizing and recognizing we're on the journey and to stay on the journey.

So yeah, I founded this community actually last year because I had. One of my biggest relapses in a long time and my normal support system was not in place. And I think that's why it was so much more intense. But as I said, my husband is a great support system, but you're support system also gets fatigued, right because they they help but they can also only help so [00:22:00] much because they don't understand they don't feel what you're going through.

And I was just like a completely broken human being and I was so. In bed crying one night and I told my husband, like, I just don't understand why isn't there something like AA for anxiety? Because, I don't, every time, if I go through this, I don't want to go back to step one. I don't want to, I have a therapist and I am on the medication and I'm doing the lifestyle changes, but obviously something happened here in this phase.

I want people that understand me and that understand what I'm saying and what I'm going through. Without feeling like I'm burdening somebody or that it's not okay to say something or that it's not okay not to be okay. Yeah, and then I thought, okay, then I'm going to start the community. So I started the kindred community and it, I'm on there every day.

I'm very strict about it and the rules about it. It really is a safe space. There's no advertising or business networking [00:23:00] or advice about doctors or medication. Like, it's very strict. It's really a place for those with anxiety to come to, to say they're not okay, to share thoughts, to share experiences and Techniques and practices that may have worked for them.

There's a meditation library on there that teaches you how to active meditate, because when you're anxious, lotus pose is not a thing. There are Podcast episodes and interviews with experts to help us understand our wiring live events, live Q and A's weekly topics that we talk about in terms of being anxious and being a mom.

I think this week's topic was about my choice not to breastfeed and the kind of fallout from that. So yeah It's all of that and it links to the courses that you can take, which is the breaking recovery is launching in two weeks, I think. And it's just a space for anxious souls like me that are just [00:24:00] seeking to co exist and that are tired of all the self help and the do this, not that we're just trying our best.

Yeah, I love it. You're doing so much. Now, what is your website that people can find you at? It's docjeanne, so d o c d o c j e a n n e dot com. Perfect. I'll have that in the show notes as well so people can just click on it. Now, if you could tell moms to do one thing after listening to this podcast, what would it be?

Oh, stop chasing balance. It's going to make you stressful. It doesn't exist. Yeah, stop chasing balance. Yeah, but also ask yourself right when we say we want balance most of the time it is something like Oh, I want to be a career person. I want to be a good mom.

I want to be a good wife I want to have a quality life. I want to look after myself. I want to have self care Why would you want to do that every day? It's so stupid Stressful. It's, it's so stressful to put all of that on yourself. There will [00:25:00] always be ebbs and flows in life. There will always be a time where you work more than another.

There will always be a time where you have more time for your kids than another time or when you're sicker or healthier. Like, just be in it and, and do the best you can in that moment. Yeah, I love that. Just be in it. Live, live, right? Instead of always trying to create this perfect balance of everything and, and yeah, be driving yourself crazy, never achieving it.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing just your story, your insight and all the work that you do. It's gonna, it's just helping so many people out there and I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And If your audience would like to check out the community, I would be happy to send you a code to put in your episode notes so they can have free access for 30 days.

Oh, we would love that. Please send that over. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you for taking [00:26:00] time to listen to this episode. If you are struggling and you're in need of a community, check out the show notes. Jeanne has offered us a free 30 day trial to her community where you can receive the support you need. So click on the links in the show notes and take advantage of that offer.

And until next week, keep embracing yourself and loving all your parts because you matter.